Re: Windows Patches [Was: GNU Libtool 2.2.8 released (stable)]

[Christopher Hulbert]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Peter Rosin <address@hidden> wrote:
> Den 2010-06-08 15:40 skrev Christopher Hulbert:
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Peter Rosin<address@hidden>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I've had enough frustration here, methinks.
>>
>> Sorry for my contribution to your frustration. I would just like to
>> see windows support in the mainstream to be done right, and the
>> attitude of "just get that out the door first" doesn't seem to be an
>> approach in the right direction. I realize you have done a lot of work
>> on that branch, and I am not trying to subvert it or criticize it. I
>> was just trying to make the Windows libtool support better.
>
> But you are subverting it and you are criticizing it when you say
> that it should "be done right". Of course it can be done better. That's
> true of all software. But you have to understand that I'm at a point
> where I since long have stopped adding new stuff since the pending
> queue is too long. It should be no surprise that I'm not happy to see
> others butt in and defer the queue even further.

Rereading what I wrote, my point didn't come out right. What I wanted
to criticize was the attitude of just merge it then go forward. For
someone who has their own windows branch for some time now, I just
don't  feel that the emotional desire to just get your existing work
into the master warrants that kind of approach. I don't know what the
right-way to do Windows support is and you are probably far more
knowledgeable than I am with libtool, so there's no way for me to say
your stuff is wrong, bad, etc.

FWIW, I butted in over a year ago with questions about the branch and
my desire to support PGI and Windows compilers [1]. Only 2 people
responded to my butting, but unfortunately (and understandably)
neither of them I think wanted to get involved with it.

>
> Since the consensus seems to be to merge the pr-msvc-support branch,
> then perhaps you should find problems with it now rather than wait
> for it to be merged? You seem to want someone to look at your work
> to check if it fits with what's pending, and adjust so that your
> stuff merges easily later. But I get the feeling that we are past
> that stage and am not really interested in going back to the drawing
> board. I want to start using what's already implemented first. So
> if you want your work to fit with the future of libtool you will
> have to address specific issues now instead of the above hand-waving
> with the implication that the pending stuff is somehow bad.

I already mentioned two problems that exist for me (no support for
Intel or PGI compilers). Of course I want someone to look at my work
or at least be interested in looking at it because it provides me
support for building on Windows that I currently don't see available,
but I fail to see how that is a bad thing. I want to share what I have
done to possibly help other people. Obviously I am willing to get my
hands dirty or I would not have started modifying libtool on my own.

I am not saying what pr-msvc-support does is bad. I am saying that it
does not provide the Windows support I needed. I would not mind
helping to add my stuff to what you have, but I have posted several
messages before related to Windows that have just dead-ended. If
someone on the pr-msvc-support branch shows no interest in my work,
and it is easier for me to start from libtool master with a clean
slate, why would I bother trying to figure out what pr-msvc-support
already had.

>
> I'm biased of course, but you all know that.
>
>> I guess in the end, it doesn't matter to me. I will continue to do
>> whatever I am doing. Sorry for the noise.
>
> Sorry if I'm stepping on toes here, but somehow this is a rather
> sensitive subject to me...

I understand it may be a sensitive subject to you. I don't know how to
say it again, but I am not criticizing or passing any other negative
judgement on the pr-msvc-support branch. I am just saying that it does
not support my Windows needs. I don't recall at the time I started my
windows branch if I was aware of pr-msvc-support or not.

>
> Oh, and I will be much more open to collaboration once the branch
> has been merged. That's a promise.

I guess I just don't understand that attitude. If it were me and
someone else wanted to collaborate or help out on Windows support,
interacting with them would be important to me. Then again, I don't
really care if my windows changes make into libtool. I will continue
to use whatever I have, and if pr-msvc-support gets merged with master
I will just figure it out.


I guess in the end it is just frustrating that few people on the
libtool list care about Windows, and furthermore do not express an
interest or invite collaboration. A year ago I had some questions on
the pr-msvc-support branch and even provided some patches I had made
to master at the time for PGI windows compiler support [1]. Only Bob
and Ralf responded. Had you popped up as the owner of the branch and
expressed interest in what I wanted to do (even if you did not care
personally for the changes), and perhaps helped me along integrating
with your branch none of this would probably be an issue for me.

I never claimed that what I had done was better than what you had
done, but without someone else interested who looks at it and
comments, suggests, etc. I don't know any better.

1. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libtool/2009-05/msg00049.html

Anyways, this thread seems to have become just a back and forth and
apparently I am coming across too critical. In the end, I will
maintain whatever I have for my own purposes. So not that I had any
standing to object from the beginning, but I will just let the issue
die.

Chris

>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>