[Axiom-developer] Re:

[Tim Daly Jr.]

On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 00:24 +0000, address@hidden
wrote:

> Must people don't run Apache on their desktop configurations.

What?  I don't know these most people, but most of the people I know run
Apache. 

> Perhaps for performance reasons on a network mod_lisp might be
> preferred although from what I hear Araneida is supposed to be
> pretty good. Is any other reason why Tim Daly Jr. recommends an
> Apache solution?

I don't know exactly what you guys are doing, being CC'd in the middle
of this and all, but I wouldn't think about performance until you have
something working.  

Apache is solid, well-tested, and well-maintained.  For a hostile
environment like the internet, it's an appropriate choice.  The author
of Araneida runs it behind Apache, both for his commercial sites, and
for the cliki.

TBNL provides a more traditional framework than Araneida.  I think it's
also slightly more comprehensive, and certainly better documented. ;)

> But cliki itself seems like a fairly neat and tidy wiki implemented
> in lisp. If someone was motivated to add LaTeX and Axiom integration
> to cliki then that might be quite interesting.

FWIW, anybody who wants to play with cliki would probably have a lot
more fun with cl-typesetting than LaTeX. :)

> Since http://www.cliki.net lists Maxima as a common lisp application
> and GCL as a common lisp implementation and Axiom runs on GCL it
> makes sense that cliki.net should also include Axiom, so I have just
> added it. If you get a chance, you might want to review what I wrote.

Axiom runs in gcl's special "archaic" mode; it's not a Common Lisp
program yet.  But adding it to the cliki might help that process
along. :)  Thanks for adding it.

> 
> Wouldn't it be nice (hint, hint :) if someone decided to do an
> SBCL port of Axiom?

I started on it, got a good chunk of the compiler compiled (which is a
long way from working...), and couldn't maintain interest because (at
least that part of) axiom's code is so awfully horrible.  It seriously
needs a rewrite, and I don't have the time.

> > "drag and drop" works since the browser, the webserver, and 
> > lisp are all running on the same machine.
> 
> ??? Seems to me there is a lot more to it than that! :(

I think what Tim means here is that he doesn't see any reason why it
wouldn't work, with suitable application of effort.  There's always more
to it. :(

> > "embedded command window" is also possible. it appears that 
> > franz already offers this ability with a lisp prompt in a
> > window. they appear to be using a java applet which opens a
> > tcp connection to the host-based lisp process and emulates a
> > terminal.
> 
> Very "old tech"... I don't see why you think this is relevant.

Actually, the web repl is only a year or two old, I think.  What could
you possibly think is "old tech" about it?  What kind of a term is that,
anyway?  Software is not seasonal.  If you don't understand the "old
tech", you're just going to re-invent it, (probably in a bloated,
embedded-in-a-web-browser, xml-compliant, and thoroughly unprincipaled
way).

> If you want to configure Apache on axiom-developer.org with
> mod_lisp I would be glad to help although I doubt that I will be
> much inclined to start developing web applications in lisp any
> time soon. Compared to Zope (which some people seem to think is
> pretty complicated) all this lisp-based web stuff seems completely
> over the top to me... ;)

Working on a web application written in Lisp might be a nice way to
learn enough of it to work on Axiom.  Despite rumors to the contrary,
web applications are often simpler than computer algebra software.

--
-Tim