Re: [FarsiLinux] New member & suggestions

[Aryan Ameri]

On Monday 04 August 2003 09:01, Arash Bijanzadeh wrote:
> On Sunday 03 August 2003 16:19, Arash Zeini wrote:
> > On Sunday 03 August 2003 14:50, Aryan Ameri wrote:
> > > On Thursday 31 July 2003 10:16, Arash Bijanzadeh wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 30 July 2003 14:34, Aryan Ameri wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday 29 July 2003 15:42, Arash Bijanzadeh wrote:
> > > > > > And what  do you think of the extra CDs for standard
> > > > > > distro's?
> > > > >
> > > > > A really nice idea. However given our current resources, I
> > > > > think this one shouldn't be high in our agenda, and should
> > > > > wait after we have reached some milestones in our own distro.
> > > >
> > > > Do not agree!
> > > >  It is just a matter of packaging.
> > >
> > > Excuse me???? Just a matter of packaging? don't think so.
> > >
> > > You said that we should find a way, to add Farsi support to major
> > > Linux distros. As far as I can see, it's more a matter of writing
> > > scripts, than a matter of packaging. For redhat as an example, we
> > > should remove it's KDE, install a new KDE, then add things like
> > > fonts and keyboard layout and etc to it, then ....
> > >
> > > Come to think of it Arash, it is not that muc simple. It's a good
> > > idea, sure, but one for the future.
> > >
> > > > And for our own distro we need
> > > > both the packages and the experience of packaging.
> > >
> > > Packaging is not that much a great deal. Is it? There are
> > > thousand of HOWTOS describing how to package into .DEB and RPM
> > > format.
>
> Adding fonts, changing the configuration and even removing another
> package could be done via a sophisticated package - the last one is
> not really peaceful and recommended! -

No you see, it is not as simple as that. We just can't simply kill 
RedHat's KDE. By removing that, user data will be lost (KDE settings, 
Korganizer and Kontact and KMail data, etc).

Having said that, I agree with Arash Z, that we shouldn't focus on this 
at all right now. We should first solve our first problem, making our 
own distro.

> I knew there is tons of HOWTOs but try to build a simple package and
> then you will find out handling packages of an application as large
> as KDE how much difficult is.

And I didn't say that packaging is easy, I just said it is well 
documented. I do however think that it needs some experience.

And don't forget, we can go the Libranet route. The Libranet guys didn't 
make the packages themselves, they just grabed them from Debian, KDE, 
and other public pakcage repositores.
>
> > I don't agree with ab, but packaging is not THAT easy.
> > Whilw we have not solved the first problems, I do not see why we
> > should add more work to our tasks?!
>
> can you assign tasks to the members? then we would be more
> productive. I feel we are working a bit messy, or maybe I am doing
> so?! :-)

We are currently finding a way, and a distro, to base our own distro on 
it. I don't see the need assign tasks here. Everybody should try what 
ever that comes to their mind, untill at last we find a soloution. That 
is at least what I am currently doing.

> > > > AND because of conflict with aictc we should do something ASAP,
> > > > to prove ourself in the action.
> > >
> > > Don't agree here. We are not the ones who should prove ourselves.
> > > They are the ones who have won the money, and thus they are the
> > > ones which should prove themselves. Sure, it would be nice to
> > > beat them, but I personaly prefer to have a good and reliable
> > > distro, than one that barely works. Even if it takes time, I
> > > think quality is more important than time. Building a robust
> > > distro takes time Arash, it might ( as Arash Z noted) take months
> > > to only do the R&D.
> > >
> > > Building something ASAP is certainly not in my list.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > >
> > > PS: I am waiting on your report on Libranet, and CollegeLinux.
> > > Have you guys tested these distros? What are your viewes?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> >
> > First of all thanks for sending them. A fast review, first
> > impression based on our needs, not objective:

Your welcome. More will follow soon, I hope.

> > - Libranet is quite interesting and a good ditro to go with. But
> > uncertain licensing, no sources and hence no advantage compared
> > with Debian. 

Arash, we are not that sure about the source, and the license. Their 
code is under GPL, and if we want it, we can get it. They didn't say 
that sources are not available, they just mentioned that they are not 
publicly available.

No advantage compared to Debian? I thought the installer was a BIG 
advantage. It did all the things that Debian lacks, like hardware auto 
detection. We badly need this feature right?

And besides, the Libranet guys said they are planning on 
internationalizing their installer, and they will look at the issue in 
September. As they plan to add support for Hebrew, I guess we won't 
have BiDi problems. And I guess we can really work with them, and help 
each other in this regard.

Libarent is a little nice company, IMHO. 


> > - College Linux: a strange mix of all distros
> > available, but little innovation, no good package management and
> > the installer is useless for our purpose.

About the installer I agree. However, I don't know how you came to the 
result that it's a mix of  different ditros. It's not. It's just a 
Slackware, with Knoppix's hardware detection scripts.

And about the package managemnt, well we don't have a slackware here, 
otherwise I am sure you would have received a good answer about the 
advantages of pkg :-)

But in the end, agreed, it is useless for us. I just sent it to show you 
that many of these little small but innovative distros exist.

> > - Xandros: Looked promissing at first, but did keep little up to no
> > promises made, apparently no GPL installer and not under active
> > development, as far as I could tell. Very innovative and easy to
> > install.

Xandros is in not the best financial situation currently (who is?), but 
I wouldn't go that much and say that the development is not active. 
They just released 1.1 a few days ago.

Yes, it is innovative, but I personaly don't like it's strategy 
(changing all packages, even going to the extreme of replacing 
konqueror with a proprietary file manager). Did you notice that they 
still use KDE 2.2 ? Same with Lindows and Lycoris. These distros, all 
changed KDE 2.2 so much, that now they can't move to KDE 3.x, because 
they don't know what to do with their changes to KDE, and those changes 
are apparently hard to port to KDE. 

The next version of Lycoris for example, will get released in a couple 
of months, and it will come with KDE 2.2 (Arrgh!).

So in the end, again agreed that no use for use, especially because 
these distros (xandros included) are proprietary. However, Xandros is 
really easey to install :-)

And PS: you can simply out of the box, installe MS Office 2000 on 
Xandros. How is that ?? ;-)

Cheers

> > Greetings,
> > Arash
>
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Aryan Ameri