RE: Interface WM [Was: RE: Window managers and GNUstep]

[Mondragon, Ian]

true, but i think i started Interface quite a while before "WOOM" came into
existance :-)

in fact, i did so after an exaustive search for an objc window manager that
proved fruitless.  and seeing as how i'm significantly more stubborn than
most people would like me to be, i'll be pounding away at Interface even
harder to ensure it's success since i've got some sort of unofficial
competition now <evil grin>. (perhaps a slogan would help? "Interface.  The
real thing."?)

speaking of the GNUstep replacement of WINGs in GNUstep...i had given that
some consideration in the beginning, but, to be honest, the WindowMaker
codebase gets pretty ugly in my eyes, so i didn't go that route.

- ian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erik Dalen [SMTP:dalen@jpl.se]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:31 AM
> To:   Mondragon, Ian
> Cc:   pjb@informatimago.com; anstouh@yahoo.com.au; discuss-gnustep@gnu.org
> Subject:      Re: Interface WM [Was: RE: Window managers and GNUstep]
> 
> 
> What about this one mentioned here earlier:
> 
> http://www.freesoftware.fsf.org/woom/
> 
> Two GNUstep windowmanagers would be overkill, but I'd definitely like to
> see one at least. But I suppose WindowMaker with GNUstep instead of WINGs
> would come pretty close.
> 
> /Erik
> 
> On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Mondragon, Ian wrote:
> 
> > i just started rewriting my own objc window manager, Interface, last
> week &
> > began debugging it last night.  i had been offering the source for a
> *very*
> > volatile & buggy version of it a loooooong time ago (even had a
> > *screenshot*...hahaha), but some problems with my dsl company killed my
> web
> > site for a while & i haven't reposted the source.  the older version was
> an
> > objc rewrite of AEWM...i've rewritten it to incorporate stuff from
> alloywm
> > (mainly more usable titlebars & such).  i started playing around with an
> > NSWindow extention to handle the titlebars a while ago (to create a more
> > *pure* GNUstep window manager), but never finished it.  right now i'm
> just
> > concerned about getting Interface to a more stable point.
> >
> > i'll re-create a page on my website (http://www.dragonhelix.org) tonight
> > specifically for Interface.
> >
> > - ian
> >
> > ps - please cc me at < copal @ dragonhelix.org > with any
> > comments/questions/suggestions.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:     Pascal Bourguignon [SMTP:pjb@informatimago.com]
> > > Sent:     Sunday, February 10, 2002 1:10 AM
> > > To:       anstouh@yahoo.com.au
> > > Cc:       discuss-gnustep@gnu.org
> > > Subject:  Re: Window managers and GNUstep
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: <anstouh@yahoo.com.au>
> > > >
> > > > Both AfterStep and GNU Window Maker make a reference to GNUstep on
> their
> > > > webpages but neither use GNUstep (although they both store user data
> in
> > > > ~/GNUstep). GWorkspace seems to have support for things normally
> left to
> > > > window managers (a root menu, application launching stuff and the
> > > process
> > > > list stuff).
> > > >
> > > > I was wondering if there was going to be a GNUstep window manager?
> > >
> > > "May be".
> > >
> > > It would  be meaningfull in  a pure GNUstep environment,  perhaps like
> > > SimplyGNUstep.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Is that what GWorkspace is supposed to be in the end?
> > >
> > > One  thing that  must be  understood, is  that window  manager is  a X
> > > notion. When GNUstep is (will be?) running with other back-ends, there
> > > would be no window manager.
> > >
> > > GWorkspace is not a window manager,  it's a mainly a file browser. You
> > > can think of  it as a GUI  shell. The only feature it  should take off
> > > from WindowMaker is the dock.
> > >
> > > If there was no WindowMaker to  draw the window frame (title bar, grow
> > > bar), it would be the job of the NSWindow class to draw this stuff. In
> > > the case of GNUstep menus, it's  actually done by the NSMenu class (or
> > > one class that is hidden behind  NSMenu, I've not looked at the actual
> > > implementation), because WindowMaker does  not provide exactly what is
> > > needed for NeXTSTEP-like application menus.
> > >
> > > In NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP,  the NSWindow class implements  the window frame
> > > drawing,  while leaving  a  few things  to  the windowPackage.ps  like
> > > moving the  window, so  it can  be done even  when the  application is
> > > suspended.
> > >
> > > Now, if the NSWindow class  implemented this window frame drawing code
> > > (and dragging/resizing of the windows),  we could use a minimal window
> > > manager or even do without any window manager.
> > >
> > > BUT, the reason a window manager such as Window Maker is needed anyway
> > > in a X environment, is to be  able to run other X applications with at
> > > least windows looking like on NeXTSTEP.
> > >
> > >
> > > > GNU Window Maker seems to
> > > > have some level of GNUstepity in it---a GNUstep application's
> appicon,
> > > for
> > > > example, shows the main menu when you right-click it. Is it intended
> > > that
> > > > GNU Window Maker be made to use GNUstep? (I don't know, some sort of
> > > merge
> > > > between WINGs and GNUstep... although I guess WINGs will no longer
> be
> > > > NGs then.)
> > >
> > > Putting the window  frame drawing in NSWindow, while  clean, would not
> > > remove the need to have it at the window manager level for the other X
> > > applications. Then  what would  be the use  to rewrite  WindowMaker in
> > > Objective-C with GNUstep? Note  that even on NeXT, windowPackage.ps is
> > > not written in Objective-C but in Postscript.
> > >
> > > The menu shown with right click  on a WindowMaker appicon is not "the"
> > > main menu. It's  a menu managed by WindowMaker,  (Keep on top, Launch,
> > > Bring Here, Hide, Setting..., Kill).
> > >
> > > The menu shown with right click  on a GNUstep appicon is the main menu
> > > of this application.
> > >
> > > Once  again, the  use of  WindowMaker here  is to  provide functionaly
> > > needed to run  X applications. It had had to be  modified to have good
> > > integration with GNUstep applications,  and things will probably still
> > > evolve.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Mostly, I like GNU Window Maker. There are some things about
> it---for a
> > > > start, it doesn't have an identical look and feel---that I'm not too
> > > fond
> > >
> > > By default yes, I don't like it either. But you can revert to good old
> > > NeXTSTEP look with WPref.app (eight pane, Titlebar Style).
> > >
> > >
> > > > of, and things like how GWorkspace has the fiend and GNU Window
> Maker
> > > has
> > > > the clip. I wouldn't mind seeing the two brought together (although
> they
> > > > don't necessarily have to be the same application, they could just
> work
> > > > together.)
> > > >
> > > > Tristan
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > __Pascal_Bourguignon__              (o_ Software patents are
> endangering
> > > ()  ASCII ribbon against html email //\ the computer industry all
> around
> > > /\  and Microsoft attachments.      V_/ the world
> http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/
> > > 1962:DO20I=1.100  2001:my($f)=`fortune`;
> http://petition.eurolinux.org/
> > >
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