Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things...

[Doc O'Leary]

In article <mailman.10491.1388130673.10748.discuss-gnustep@gnu.org>,
 Richard Frith-Macdonald <richardfrithmacdonald@gmail.com> wrote:

> We are getting nothing of value here ... you are simpy demontrating that you 
> don't understand science, or english, or are just trolling.

That's certainly a good way to keep dismissing things you don't want to 
hear.

> 1. I said that the negative/harsh/insulting language you have used is 
> generally counterproductive (refer to loads of psychology research if you 
> wish)

Well why not sit and ponder for a bit about why that is?  I mean, when 
someone tell me *I* am wrong, I don't get all defensive about it and 
lash out.  If they're right, I am better served in changing my thinking 
so that I am no longer wrong.  If they are wrong, their words are 
powerless against me and, turning it back around, we may both benefit by 
*them* changing their way of thinking.  If *you choose* to be insulted 
by either situation, or consider either reality as overly negative or 
harsh, what does that say about your psychology?

> 2. It seems you justify the use of this language as being 'brutal/harsh 
> reality and scientific)

It's objective.  I don't insert my ego into the discussion.  Despite 
many attempts here to attack me, I've been trying to stick to the 
external facts that I think should inform the direction of GNUstep.

> Firstly, the point stands ... I was talking about the effective way to use 
> language, not about literal meaning.  You can express the same information in 
> different ways and cause different responses from your readers in the way you 
> say things.

Of course.  And as I have said before, I'm *intentionally* not trying to 
be charming here.  I'm not looking to sway opinion based on furthering a 
cult of personality.  So far, I've only seen Gregory get that when he 
once said he was "forced to agree" with me.  That it was forced shows he 
is still coming from an egocentric viewpoint, but baby steps.

> Secondly, your misuse of the word 'scientific' as a justification annoys the 
> pedant in me.  I have a great respect for science and dislike it when people 
> give science a bad name by misrepresenting it.

Then stop doing that.  Science is more than you want it to be.  It's 
*not* an insult to point out that your cloistered efforts don't stand up 
to real-world exposure.  GNUstep went looking for the crowd to support 
you, and they resoundingly said no.  The scientific thing to do is 
figure out why what you're doing doesn't pass the test.  *Not* the test 
of code and compilers and self-satisfied-back-patting, but the larger 
(dare I say brutal? :-) world you inhabit.

> > Beginning?  This was what I was saying back in November!  Shame on me 
> > for expecting to have been heard the first time . . .
> 
> Perhaps what you think you say and what you actually say are very different 
> (or perhaps you just like trolling).

Perhaps you are right.  I am willing to consider that I am wrong 
(indeed, it's my first assumption).  When will you begin to show the 
same level of critical thinking?  And for all I've tried to keep this on 
the topic of GNUstep and the Kickstarter proposal, your cohort is the 
one that seems surprisingly eager to steer off-topic into trollish 
territory.

> I don't follow this time machine point ... I'm guessing that you may be 
> trying to imply that you tried what I suggested at tsome point in the past?

Your reading skills astound me.

> I agree that it's best you move on.

As you wish.

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