Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 7:48 PM
> From: "Philip K." <philipk@posteo.net>
> To: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars
>
> Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es> writes:
> 
> >>>> and which may well be discouraging people from using Emacs
> >>>> at all (because it looks useless and out of touch).
> >>>
> >>> We have no data to support that.
> >>
> >> I did, very carefully, not claim that we do.
> >
> > At some point on the past it was decided that having a toolbar was a
> > good thing. Switching it off just because a very poorly executed survey
> > barely resembles a democratic vote on its utility, without revisiting
> > the original motivation, is questionable.
> >
> > Really, this kind of decissions should be based on guidance by UI
> > experts. Sadly, it seems that we have none onboard, same as every other
> > Free or Open Source projects around (and even most propietary ones).
> > They are very scarce.
> 
> Maybe I'm too cynical, but can a non-Emacs UI expert really help with
> something as other-worldly as Emacs? And I don't even mean this in an
> elitist way, just that it has so many conventions and usage-patterns
> from parallel UI traditions, that it might seem easier to just start all
> over (which I'm not advocating for).

Now start all over, but transition certain modes, or write new modes.  
We should not be afraid to throw away old functionality if things get
better.  Ultimately, Richard Stallman started his grudge because using
the printer ended up not being convenient for him.

I do not see many with the Stallman's Approach - I can do better, I have the 
skills, and
I will write new code, from scratch if necessary.  Only after about 8 years of 
Gnu did we
start to see operational advantages.

This reminds me of Tevye in the village of Anatevka in the opening number
"Tradition" of the 1964 Broadway Musical.  Emacs must be for worldly people
today, as was being for done for worldly people in the 80's. 
 
> > BTW, I disable the toolbar (and the menu) on my config.
> 
> -- 
>       Philip K.
> 
>