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Re: [Fsfe-uk] Just a Minute

From: Andrew Savory
Subject: Re: [Fsfe-uk] Just a Minute
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:13:25 +0100 (BST)


It is bad netiquette to publish or reply to a _private email_ on a public
mailing list. Please do not do that again.

On 15 Apr 2002, Martin Coxall wrote:

> Then you have no excuse. The minutes do not come even close to
> representing the basic thrust of the meeting and you know it.

I have asked you repeatedly off-list to explain in what way you feel they
did not represent the meeting, and you had thus far singularly failed to
do so.

> > * If you or anyone else from group 1's table have notes they can provide,
> >   it would be a very good idea to post those to the list.
> Pah, I am not a petty bureaucrat. It's people like you that enjoy this
> sort of thing.

I'm sorry, but for a distributed organisation, some form of "reporting
back" is essential - it's not realistic to expect EVERYONE to make it to
EVERY meeting. If we are to avoid rehashing the same debates over and over
for the benefit of those that weren't there last time, we will make no
progress. I don't think taking notes instantly condemns us to being petty
bureaucrats, does it?

> The bloke from Linux Format may have taken some notes, but you know what
> we were talking about since your half joined in later, then made it
> clear that you found the discussion distasteful,

I tried to draw what was rapidly becoming a tit-for-tat shouting match
(like this one) to a close so that we could move on to other issues. It
was not the discussion I found distasteful but the lack of common manners
and decency by the side that opted for the "shout them down, we know best,
don't listen to their points" approach.

> then you fucked off to another pub. It's clear that since it was a
> fundamental discussion about the nature and philosophy of the
> organisation, you simply decided to pretend none of it ever happened at
> the meeting.

That's right, I was due to meet friends elsewhere. Apologies that I wasn't
able to stay and minute the rest of the meeting, but it's an open forum so
others are obviously welcome to add their own minutes to the ones I

> I just did. I told you to stop writing the most significant discussions
> of the day out of the minutes.

Thank you. Now I know what you're on about, we can make sure everyone can
be made aware of it. As I missed the conclusion of the debate, could you
summarise it for us, and outline any decisions that were made?

> > * Otherwise, STFU.
> Nope. And if you pull this sort of nonsense again, I will pick you up on
> it again. There are more important things than meetings, committee,
> minutes, working, groups, liaisons, mailing list outreaches and
> teacher-geek free software interfaces.

Yes, but given the remit of the meeting (the agenda is available here:
http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/fsfe-uk/2002-April/000846.html in case you
haven't read it), these were all things that were due to be covered before
getting on to wider debates.

> Your attempt to ignore the wider reaches of Saturday's discussion and
> focus on the mundane does the AFFS a gross disservice. The bureaucrats
> are running the asylum, and it has only existed as a group for a few
> weeks. Sad, especially as this sort of thing doesn't have to happen. To
> quote Richard Stallman: "There are more important things than free
> software".

Is there any chance at all that you could keep positive, and instead of
throwing accusations around, try actually contributing useful stuff? If
you don't like it, change it. Don't just moan and gripe. You've got a
reputation for starting flame wars on lists. Please don't do that here.


Andrew Savory                                Email: address@hidden
Managing Director                              Tel:  +44 (0)870 741 6658
Luminas Internet Applications                  Fax:  +44 (0)870 28 47489
This is not an official statement or order.    Web:    www.luminas.co.uk

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