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[Gnu-arch-users] Re: [OT] fixing emacs
From: |
Stephen J. Turnbull |
Subject: |
[Gnu-arch-users] Re: [OT] fixing emacs |
Date: |
Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:31:42 +0900 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.1001 (Gnus v5.10.1) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, linux) |
>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Lord <address@hidden> writes:
Tom> For starters, I'd start just with "dialog-box" style
Tom> functionality. Is there a mechanism by which I can put up a
Tom> form with buttons, and check-boxes, and lists, and so forth,
Tom> rendered with native widgets?
Yes, in 21.4. Publicly released in April 2001. The feature was
available in devo since about 1997.
Tom> Why not provide that via text buffers that are specially
Tom> rendered?
That's basically the way they're done, in 21.4.
Tom> Create a special, buffer-local variable:
The way it's currently done is to treat native widgets (including
layouts) as glyphs, and attach the glyphs to an annotation either in a
buffer or in a string placed in the frame's gutter.
A more text-like API was considered, but you end up with too much
cruft in the buffer. Better to use code.
Tom> The redisplay engine, to display a window on a 'dialog
Tom> buffer, should build a widget tree. Widget-callbacks and so
Tom> forth should be hidden from Emacs lisp -- just translated
Tom> into (perhaps new types of) events which the major-mode of
Tom> the 'dialog buffer can decide how to handle. I doubt that
Tom> that would require major changes to the redisplay engine.
Not any more. I don't know how much was required when it was done 4
years ago.
Tom> Note that this has a very unusual yet pretty easy programming
Tom> interface.
It hasn't been unusual to XEmacs hackers for several years.
Tom> 1) Windows and frames: I think it would be awefully nice to
Tom> sqeeze into window-separators and modelines some tiny
Tom> controls for splitting windows and deleting windows.
Ancient history. I don't think we have that by default but I know
there are hacks for it.
Tom> I think it would be nice to add to the menu-bar some
Tom> (button-like, not menu) controls for creating new frames and
Tom> destroying frames.
I'll keep that in mind, although I'll probably be conservative and put
them in the toolbar.
Tom> 2) Minibuffer management: Let's suppose that you do, in fact,
Tom> have 'diaglog buffers. Many (perhaps all?) interactive
Tom> declarations can be translated automatically into forms -- so
Tom> the minibuffer can be displayed as a 'dialog buffer if that's
Tom> what the user prefers.
Ancient history, but imperfectly and incompletely implemented except
on Windows.
Tom> 3) Fancier widgets: I'll pick two that don't map very nicely
Tom> onto text -- structured drawings (e.g., a musical score or a
Tom> call-graph) and tables (e.g., a large, possibly
Tom> multi-dimensional spreadsheet).
XEmacs 21.4 has a tree widget for some platforms. Music and
spreadsheets, not that I know of yet. We'd need a new layout for
spreadsheets, music (and true sub/superscripts) are harder.
Tom> stack-oriented interact loops;
That may be insoluble. I'm not sure how much it matters.
Tom> slow language;
Maybe, Moore's law helps
Tom> slow text handling;
I don't see it, except in Mule.
Tom> anemic subprocess mgt; etc
Tom> my bet would be that 'dialog buffers alone would find a lot
Tom> of use
You're wrong. They've been available for years, and nobody uses them,
or even requests them. They'd be great in Custom, but Custom is so
fragile and unstable that nobody is willing to rewrite in a way that
makes the quarterly GNU synch harder. GNU Emacs doesn't support them,
so it's too much pain for too little gain.
--
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
ask what your business can "do for" free software.
- [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation [was: funding free software R&D], (continued)
- [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation [was: funding free software R&D], Stephen J. Turnbull, 2003/08/28
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation [was: funding free software R&D], Andrew Suffield, 2003/08/28
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2003/08/28
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation, Andrew Suffield, 2003/08/28
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2003/08/28
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation, Tom Lord, 2003/08/29
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2003/08/30
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation, Tom Lord, 2003/08/28
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2003/08/29
- [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] fixing emacs (was Re: Architectural renovation), Tom Lord, 2003/08/29
- [Gnu-arch-users] Re: [OT] fixing emacs,
Stephen J. Turnbull <=
- [Gnu-arch-users] Re: [OT] fixing emacs, Tom Lord, 2003/08/30
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] [OT] Architectural renovation, Colin Walters, 2003/08/29
- [Gnu-arch-users] Re: [OT] Architectural renovation [was: funding free software R&D], Tom Lord, 2003/08/28
- [Gnu-arch-users] Re: [OT] Architectural renovation, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2003/08/29