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My responses to developers' responses
From: |
address@hidden |
Subject: |
My responses to developers' responses |
Date: |
Mon, 25 Jun 2012 15:23:38 +0200 |
Hey all,
Thank you very much, Colin, for organizing these responses.
I think GOP2-0 is very important, and as such I'd like to send responses to
certain excerpts from other people's emails.
DevC
> There's a similar problem with trying to recruit new contributors.
> Person 41 says "hey guys, it's easy to help! here's a link to get you
> started", then person 15 immediately says "no wait, it's too hard.
> Don't get involved unless somebody will help you". And then person 15
> and 94 start arguing about something else, so even if somebody still
> wanted to help out, the argument would drive them away anyway. But
> just like the website problem, it seems that nobody is saying "yes, we
> should have new contributors, so I will help 1 person get involved and
> take responsibility for giving that 1 person a fair chance to
> contribute".
I agree. I do not believe that saying "it's too hard" is a good solution. I
am more than willing to help people this way - I am officially naming myself as
"New Contributor Czar" and will propose a patch in an hour that advertises this
on the website.
> The arguments are another problem that lessens the feeling of
> teamwork. We should be able to "agree to disagree" -- namely,
> politely state our opinions and any evidence to support them, read
> other people's opinions and evidence, and compare the two. Even if
> there is no consensus, we should still appreciate that the other
> people are trying to make lilypond better. I don't feel that we've
> had polite disagreements in all cases, such as the recent argument
> about s1*0 vs. <>.
I agree, but I have come to realize in the past year that politeness is more
linked to someone's capacity to be polite than any inherently good or bad
aspect of a patch (meaning that there is no such thing as a patch that merits
more or less politeness, just people who are more or less polite by nature). I
used to get hung up on this and hurt by certain comments, but I have since just
come to say to myself "person X or Y is sometimes impolite", not as a value
judgement, but simply to remind myself that this is how person X or Y
communicates. I believe this type of distance is critical: people often cannot
control their level of politeness (in the same way they can't control if they
feel offended or hurt) and I now just accept everyone on this list for who they
are and have learned to understand what they mean without taking things
personally. Everyone on this list wants to make beautifully typeset music -
for me, that is reason enough to work with them without letting personality
differences get in the way.
> The last "teamwork" problem is the amount of "monetization" going on.
> I didn't join lilypond to help other people make money off it. I
> don't have any good suggestions for this, but the question asked if I
> was contributing less and this is one reason. Having some people
> making money and others not makes it feel like less of a "team".
When I worked a church gig for 3 years, I made money, as did the pastor and
other members of the community. There were many other members of the community
who simply donated their time to the church. Others couldn't donate time but
benefited from church events and the Sunday service and were grateful that the
church was there. Here, we were able to use the paid roles in order to create
more, not less, of a sense of teamwork. I encourage people to ask themselves
how they can make LilyPond work like this. I didn't join LilyPond either to
help other people make money off of it, but I'm thrilled that my contributions
to it can help people like David work on it full time, which in turn makes
LilyPond better and therefore easier for me to contribute.
Lastly, monetization often goes hand-in-hand with team building. I think our
team can only get stronger because of stuff like LoMuS and GSoC, and I think
it's important to keep looking for rewards and programs like this.
> The third reason is the patch-handling setup. There have been a few
> times that some documentation needed a little edit or tweak here or
> there, but I just couldn't be bothered to make a new branch, do the
> edit, upload to rietveld, wait a few days, then push that branch to
> staging.
I do fixes like this all the time w/o the full review (i.e. the pondings
column). Everyone trusts you - if it's truly a minor tweak, go for it.
DevG
> Serious involvement with LilyPond, be it as a user,
> developer or doc-writer, requires a serious commitment of time and
> effort. For me, and probably for most others, that level of
> dedication can be maintained only for so long.
I feel the same way - I had a long burst of energy, and I will still be doing
the skyline patch, but I'm spending a lot more time composing and performing
now. I think that the solution is pedagogy - get people interested in LilyPond
so that someone can rise out of the crop who, for a year or so, can sustain a
high level of development performance. I'll be doing what I can when I go on
tour w/ my group next year.
DevH
> My motivation goes down when i feel insignificant:
>
> - when i don't get reviews
I am a culprit of this and I'll try to do a better job. I've found that, for
me, I've hit my reviewing stride w/ Janek - not necessarily patch reviews, but
e-mails back and forth about GSoC. This is more informal than Rietveld but I'm
much better at responding to targeted questions rather than looking at the
totality of the patch. I used to be on the sending end of these e-mails to
Neil and Han-Wen. It's less transparent than the common process but it speeds
things up and I think we should encourage more stuff like this.
> - when a simple patch takes forever because every word is discussed
> over and over again
Agreed - I think less is more here. I've lost time on patches going over and
over things that could have taken way less time. I think that Keith is a model
for good patch review - he says what needs to be done, I get it done, and all
is well. No confusion, no arguments. Very efficient. When I do give
feedback, I try to model mine on his and I'd like to see everyone do the same.
> - when i spend more time on maintenance (creating issues, searching
> for messages on two trackers+email, closing issues, pushing to
> staging) than actual work
This surprises me - I have often felt that maintenance was annoying (we all do)
but I never felt like I spent more time on this than actual devel work. The
automation tools that Graham has made are excellent and the bug squad is really
helpful w/ reminders if need be. I'd encourage everyone to get the most
up-to-date git-cl.
>
> - when someone else could in half an hour do what i'm struggling to do
> since two days (but he simply doesn't have time)
Just send an e-mail to the list or to an individual. Almost every time Werner
sends an e-mail saying "do thing X" I do it. I mostly don't work on issues
because I don't know about them or don't feel they're particularly urgent or
important.
> Finally, i think we lack a vision and common goal that would give us
> motivation boost. I find it quite surprising that Janek's articles in
> LilyPond Report #25 and #26 gathered little comments from experienced
> developers.
I completely agree that this work is essential.
DevL
> 1. Friendship and the fun of creating: ... now I realise
> that working together on a project (the how) is possibly more
> important than what you are making (the what).
I enjoy working with the development team and I try to make it as social as
possible. I'm lucky to live close to several developers. That said, the one I
see most (Valentin) and I rarely work on LilyPond development together, though
we use it and promote it all the time.
> For me, working on
> LilyPond was mostly fun. Anything was possible, the only limitation
> was myself.
I still feel this way about LilyPond.
> 3. Shared, global responsibility and trust: Breaking things seems
> critical now, you have to be extremely careful. When things broke,
> anywhere in LilyPond (C++, Scheme, build system, Python, Scheme) often
> another developer would have it fixed before you found out yourself.
> Everyone had almost global understanding of everything, we all made
> mistakes and we all knew that we all made mistakes (incidentally:
> that's how people learn best).
This is more or less how I approached LilyPond when I started development a
couple years back.
It'd be great to see others get to the "everyone had an almost global
understanding of everything" point - I think the GSoC project will be great for
Janek to get there and I'm always willing to give people a hand understanding
stuff. This is especially true for bug-squad members and doc writers: you guys
have already gone through all the hard stuff. Understanding the code base is
easy compared to creating a first score with LilyPond, which all of you have
assumedly done.
Cheers,
MS