Re: [GLISS] non-timed or non-musical events "z" "y"

[Graham Percival]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 01:56:35AM +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
> Graham Percival <address@hidden> writes:
> 
> > A vaguely-related idea is to allow easy positioning of musical
> > events within a note.  Instead of having a non-timed null event
> > which begins *after* the previous note, we have a timed null event
> > which begins at the same time as the previous note.  An example
> > might make that much more clear:
> >   \new Voice { << { c'1 } { s4\< s s\> s\! } >> }
> >   \new Voice { c'1 y4\< y y\> y\! }
> 
> If this is supposed to be equivalent, note that there is no difference
> between c'1\< and c'1 y4\< when viewed alone, yet in context they are
> supposed to generate different output.

I'm confused.  The intent is indeed that these two lines produce
identical behaviour:
  | c'1\<
  | c'1 y4\<
namely, the "music time" advances by a whole note 1, while the
"extra event time" advances by a quarter note 4  .  The crescendo
operates as a postfix on the y4, which "begins" at the same time
as the c'1.
The initial example could also be written as:
  \new Voice { c'1\< y2 y4\> y\! }


> I suspect that you were rather thinking about the first line being
> 
> << { c'1 } { s4 s\< s s\> <>\! } >>
> 
> I don't really think that this (assuming that this is what you wanted to
> write) is clearer than
> 
> \at 4 \< \at 1 \! c'1

You will be entirely unsurprised to hear that I shudder to see
that prefix.  :)

> and at any rate, it looks that this is to a good degree a self-made
> problem by virtue of us turning dynamics into post-events, something
> which does not really fit their nature well.

I think of music as being a series of
pitches+rhythms+modifications.  I mean, when I skim music, my eyes
notice the staff position, notehead, and beam before really taking
in dynamic signs, articulations, etc.  With that view (which is
evidently not universal), it seems natural to me to write the
pitch and duration first, and then all the other "special bits"
that occur on or around that note.

Here's a few imaginary ways of writing the same music:
  \at 4 \< \at 1 \! c'1
  c'1 y4 y\< y z\!
  c'1-<< y4 y\< y z\! >>
  c'1-{ s4 s\< s2 z\! }

Out of these, I'm most comfortable with the last one.  I can
immediately see the pitch and duration.  Once I've noticed those,
I can look at the "extra bits" inside the -{}.  Even better, those
"extra bits" can be easily (for some definitions of "easily") be
given a different color with syntax highlighting.

- Graham