Re: Need someone testing XML file in Finale and Sibelius (and Dorico)

[Urs Liska]

Am 07.05.2018 um 18:13 schrieb Jacques Menu Muzhic:
> Hello Urs,
>
> With the LP code:
>
> {
>    c'8 [ d' e' f' ]
> }
>
> what is the difficulty for producing <beam/> markups in the MusicXML output?

None. This works now (although the Pull Request hasn't been merged.

What does *not* work is producing beams in MusicXML from *that*:

{
  c'8 d' e' f
}

Since the implicit beams are not explicit in the input file python-ly 
doesn't know about them.

Similarly:

{
  c'8 [ d'16 e'16 ]
}

Can't *correctly* be exported because MusicXML expects detailed 
information about the beaming pattern (how many beams at each note), 
which again isn't explicitly available in the LilyPond input.

To overcome this limitation python-ly would either have to reimplement 
all the stuff the LilyPond parser does (think about what happens when we 
come to Scheme functions :-O ) - or we find a way to have LilyPond parse 
the score and pass the parsed expressions to some exporter module (which 
is the approach Jan-Peter is exploring).

Urs

> JM
>
> > Le 6 mai 2018 à 12:20, Urs Liska <address@hidden> a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 6. Mai 2018 12:08:39 MESZ schrieb Jacques Menu Muzhic <address@hidden>:
> > > I’m not familiar with python.ly <http://python.ly/>’s internals: does
> > > it use LP’s internal description, shown below by \displayMusic?
> > No, it parses the input file(s) - which points to the single most significant 
> > limitation of python-ly's/Frescobaldi's approach.
> >
> > > Starting lilypond 2.19.80 [nobeam.ly]...
> > > Processing
> > > `/var/folders/jc/xrpy67_x6_vcjfzpzds_9_6m0000gn/T/frescobaldi-nx6e_mso/tmp2kwa263p/nobeam.ly'
> > > Parsing...
> > > Interpreting music...
> > > Preprocessing graphical objects...
> > > Finding the ideal number of pages...
> > > Fitting music on 1 page...
> > > Drawing systems...
> > > Layout output to
> > > `/var/folders/jc/xrpy67_x6_vcjfzpzds_9_6m0000gn/T//lilypond-pwPv1B'...
> > > Converting to `nobeam.pdf'...
> > > Deleting
> > > `/var/folders/jc/xrpy67_x6_vcjfzpzds_9_6m0000gn/T//lilypond-pwPv1B'...
> > >
> > > (make-music
> > > 'SequentialMusic
> > > 'elements
> > > (list (make-music
> > > 'NoteEvent
> > > 'articulations
> > > (list (make-music
> > > 'BeamEvent
> > > 'span-direction
> > > -1))
> > > 'duration
> > > (ly:make-duration 3)
> > > 'pitch
> > > (ly:make-pitch 0 0))
> > > (make-music
> > > 'NoteEvent
> > > 'pitch
> > > (ly:make-pitch 0 1)
> > > 'duration
> > > (ly:make-duration 3))
> > > (make-music
> > > 'NoteEvent
> > > 'pitch
> > > (ly:make-pitch 0 2)
> > > 'duration
> > > (ly:make-duration 3))
> > > (make-music
> > > 'NoteEvent
> > > 'articulations
> > > (list (make-music
> > > 'BeamEvent
> > > 'span-direction
> > > 1))
> > > 'duration
> > > (ly:make-duration 3)
> > > 'pitch
> > > (ly:make-pitch 0 3))))
> > >
> > > Success: compilation successfully completed
> > > Completed successfully in 0.8".
> > >
> > > > Le 6 mai 2018 à 11:58, Urs Liska <address@hidden> a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Am 06.05.2018 um 11:43 schrieb Jacques Menu Muzhic:
> > > > > Hello Urs,
> > > > >
> > > > > musicsml2ly and Finale 2014 behave as expected, but MuseScore 2.2.1
> > > produces beams in both cases, i.e. even when there are no beams in the
> > > MusicXML data.
> > > > OK, that seems that between 2.1.0 and 2.2.1 MuseScore has added that
> > > feature.
> > > > Still it's of course inacceptable not to export beams at all.
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately we can so far only deal with explicit beams, there's no
> > > way (without substantial work to redo LilyPond's autobeaming (and
> > > beaming pattern) in Python).
> > > > Thanks for testing
> > > > Urs
> > > >
> > > > > Strange…
> > > > >
> > > > > JM
> > > > >
> > > > > > Le 6 mai 2018 à 11:09, Urs Liska <address@hidden> a écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Jacques,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am 06.05.2018 um 10:11 schrieb Jacques Menu Muzhic:
> > > > > > > Hello Urs,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’m doing tests with MusicXML, could you send me an example where
> > > MuseScore doesn’t show any beams after exporting from LilyPond?
> > > > > > Attached you'll find a simple nobeam.ly and the file nobeam.xml,
> > > which is the result from exporting with the current master of
> > > python-ly. This will be opened without beams in MuseScore 2.
> > > > > > nobeam-withbeams.xml is the result of exporting from the branch
> > > xml-handle-beams (my current pull request). The XML file I originally
> > > sent was also created from that branch.
> > > > > > Thanks for helping to look into it.
> > > > > > Urs
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > JM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Le 5 mai 2018 à 11:50, address@hidden a écrit :
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Torsten,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 5. Mai 2018 11:44, "Torsten Hämmerle" <address@hidden>
> > > schrieb:
> > > > > > > > > Hi Urs,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sibelius works fine:
> > > <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t3887/05-beam-sibelius.png>
> > > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As my Dorico evaluation period has expired, I can't even start
> > > it.
> > > > > > > > > All the others allow testing w/o save/export functionality, but
> > > Steinberg is
> > > > > > > > > much more restrictive in that respect.
> > > > > > > > On the Facebook group I got a screenshot of Dorico, so (not
> > > unexpectedly) this works too.
> > > > > > > > So my conclusion is: we can export faulty XML, and Finale,
> > > Sibelius, Dorico, MuseScore and Verovio will still properly handle it.
> > > > > > > > I find that somewhat embarrassing, but I think it's much better
> > > than nothing (I was pretty surprised to see that MusesScore didn't show
> > > *any* beams after exporting a small example from LilyPond ...)
> > > > > > > > Thanks to all who responded.
> > > > > > > > Urs
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All the best,
> > > > > > > > > Torsten
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html
> > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > <nobeam.ly><nobeam.xml><nobeam-withbeams.xml>