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| From: | Tristan Latchford |
| Subject: | Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 237, Issue 26 |
| Date: | Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:58:19 -0400 |
| User-agent: | Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.12.0 |
Hi Andrew,What is the use case for this?It was the opening night of my musical, “Robin Hood: The Legendary Musical Comedy”. The curtain was at 8PM. At 7:30PM, I realized I had not arranged and printed out the piccolo part for the overture, as I had promised the player. So I went into the theatre office, borrowed their computer, logged on to lilybin, and generated a piccolo part which I handed to the player just a few minutes before the downbeat. I was very grateful for lilybin at that moment — there was no way to install lilypond on any machine in the building at that moment — and I'm sure in a similar situation, I might be grateful for a web-accessible version of Frescobaldi.
For the record, I do not have a laptop. Also, it looks like lilybin.com is down (hacklily.org is still working, though) so it looks like a web version of Frescobaldi would fill a niche. -- Knute Snortum
Dear Andrew and All,
I hope that you are all well. I have never responded to a thread
like this before, so I'm still getting the hang of the etiquette.
Nonetheless, I feel that I may have a useful insight for this.
I am a full-time working composer, and currently also a doctoral
student at a well-known U.S. musical institution which I cannot
speak for. What I can speak for however is the sense of a large
current sea-change occuring within the below-30 agegroup as a
result of the ever-more ubiquitous nature of the internet and the
invisible restraints that some notation softwares have placed
quietly on their users. I have witnessed this in all three
composition departments I have been a part of - two in the U.K.,
and one here in the U.S..
It appears to me that the spell of cloud computing and
subscription softwares is beginning to break. Recently, I walked
past a student political protest in which individuals on both
sides of the disagreement had tee-shirts that were against these
ideas (one of particular interest being a tee-shirt with a
onedrive logo imitating a pokeball vacuuming up lots of people
beneath it with the tagline 'gotta catch them all!').
My own experience reflects this - I was a Sibelius user at large
from age 16, but after amassing 60 scores, was told that my
perpetual license was not in fact perpetual. I was left holding an
enormous number of files I couldn't open, and a high upgrade fee.
Being given this news was actually rather devastating, and I have
been subsisting on a hodge-podge of .pdf files ever since (this
coincided in my case with the Apple general refusal of 32-bit
software, so within the space of three months I couldn't even open
the program!). Luckily - I have always written my music by hand,
and created parts by hand too, so I didn't lose anything. And this
is how I eventually came to Lilypond and Frescobaldi.
The thing is, this same thing is happening with increasing
regularity to many composers in my agegroup, who cannot afford the
high fees once leaving University. Whilst some will move to
MuseScore, there are an ever-increasing group who are looking for
an Engraving software as opposed to a Composing software -
step forward Lilypond and Frescobaldi! It is for this reason that
I know of 2 university faculty, and 20 composers/late stage
composition students under the age of 30 who have switched their
workflow to Frescobaldi/Lilypond in the last 6 months and I know
12 more who are seriously considering it. This number is ever
increasing.
The issue (and major sticking point) is that, for most of these
individuals this is their first experience with computer coding.
The reason that it has suddenly become worth learning is the very
fact that it remains offline, and goes where their
computer/laptop/memory stick goes (and never goes out of date!).
It is also capable of significantly more complex engraving feats
than any GUI-based software, mostly eliminating the endless hours
dragging notes backward and forward by individual pixels to get it
to publication standard (because the formatting commands always
introduce annoying collisions somewhere!). It also prints and
combines scores to this standard faster than any other engraving
software, even for an amateur, and it publishes directly to .pdf -
so all you need to carry around is a memory stick with the parts
on! It was also my first experience with any form of coding, and
the learning curve has been steep, but I can honestly say it has
been worth it, and it was easier to reach enough proficiency to
create a good-looking score than Sibelius was.
A browser-based Frescobaldi may be a useful feature, but it isn't
as useful as preperation and a memory stick to those who don't
know coding and want to stay offline. Opening a .pdf on a foreign
computer has always worked even if that same computer can't load
the microsoft outlook website (or is offline)! As Wol implied, the
internet tends to favour the young and physically able on these
issues (I use a screen reader/magnifier). Running and
understanding something on a local computer is a simpler process
to understand than running something on a computer from afar if,
like me, you don't actually know how that mechanism works! Also,
as someone who has travelled lots - the freedom to work offline is
freedom indeed (especially when you can't log in to any of the
WiFi!).
In short, a browser-based Frescobaldi sounds good, but a cloud
solution in which you access your files from a central server
seems to me to be running a little counter to the current
direction of culture.
For what it it may be worth - I feel like the edge that
Frescobaldi could really sharpen is making the coding
learning-curve easier for non-coding composers to digest, without
bluntening the extraordinary power of Lilypond. If we could make
the adoption of the coding as easy to learn as the adoption of a
new UI, then I suspect that non-coding musician users would begin
to come in droves.
Incidentally; I'm thinking of doing a video and written series of
my learning curve and compositional process espousing the benefits
of switching on my website/youtube channel, alongside hand
engraving - carrying on where 'sound from sound' left off perhaps
- would this be of interest?
Thank you very much for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to hearing your responses,
Yours faithfully,
--Tristan
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Re: Glissando stems (Thomas Morley) 3. pitched trill fingerings (Jim Cline) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 07:35:31 -0700 From: Knute Snortum <ksnortum@gmail.com> To: Kieren MacMillan <kieren@kierenmacmillan.info> Cc: Andrew Bernard <andrew.bernard@mailbox.org>, Lilypond-User Mailing List <lilypond-user@gnu.org> Subject: Re: Prototype Frescobaldi in the browser Message-ID: CALmeJxQVphOQGdxSvZFREpoy9bb_3P-W--7_yE3Wc9XOF2YUXA@mail.gmail.com"><CALmeJxQVphOQGdxSvZFREpoy9bb_3P-W--7_yE3Wc9XOF2YUXA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 4:33 AM Kieren MacMillan <kieren@kierenmacmillan.info> wrote:Hi Andrew,What is the use case for this?It was the opening night of my musical, “Robin Hood: The Legendary Musical Comedy”. The curtain was at 8PM. At 7:30PM, I realized I had not arranged and printed out the piccolo part for the overture, as I had promised the player. So I went into the theatre office, borrowed their computer, logged on to lilybin, and generated a piccolo part which I handed to the player just a few minutes before the downbeat. I was very grateful for lilybin at that moment — there was no way to install lilypond on any machine in the building at that moment — and I'm sure in a similar situation, I might be grateful for a web-accessible version of Frescobaldi.For the record, I do not have a laptop. Also, it looks like lilybin.com is down (hacklily.org is still working, though) so it looks like a web version of Frescobaldi would fill a niche. -- Knute Snortum ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 17:19:27 +0200 From: Thomas Morley <thomasmorley65@gmail.com> To: Mark Knoop <mark@opus11.net> Cc: Lilypond User List <lilypond-user@gnu.org> Subject: Re: Glissando stems Message-ID: CABsfGyUxfrDzKHgwigT1wv5rXJ1SnVcwA21gs_qSQNWeH-pboQ@mail.gmail.com"><CABsfGyUxfrDzKHgwigT1wv5rXJ1SnVcwA21gs_qSQNWeH-pboQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Am Mo., 8. Aug. 2022 um 16:35 Uhr schrieb Mark Knoop <mark@opus11.net>:Following on from this old thread... https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2019-10/msg00405.html ... I'm using Harm's fantastic code to align/attach Stems to a Glissando line. However, I've come across a problem with the code which in relation to MultiMeasureRests. Namely, writing a MMR which will appear on the same system as the Glissando (or some other situations) results in an error: ERROR: In procedure ly:item-get-column: Wrong type argument in position 1 (expecting Item): #<Grob Spanner > Attached is Harm's original code with a few lines added to the example (at line 595) which demonstrate the problem. Many thanks, Mark -- Mark KnoopHi Mark, `ly:item-get-column' used in bultin `grob::when' sometimes causes the problem, if blindly thrown at all system's elts, as I do in said coding. It's fixable by prefiltering for NoteColumns, i.e. line 102ff should read: ;; Filter for every inner (skipped) NoteColumn (inner-ncs (filter (lambda (elt) (let (;; Going for `ly:grob-relative-coordinate´ disturbs ;; vertical spacing, thus we sort/filter using ;; `grob::when´ (elt-when (grob::when elt))) (and (ly:grob-property elt 'glissando-skip #f) (ly:moment<? left-bound-when elt-when) (not (moment<=? right-bound-when elt-when))))) (filter (lambda (elt) (grob::has-interface elt 'note-column-interface)) (ly:grob-array->list sys-elts-array)))) That said, meanwhile I don't like the whole approach anymore... The need to recreate things LilyPond already has done is an alarm sign. Maybe there are other still uncovered bugs. Alas, I don't have a working alternative :( HTH a bit, Harm ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 11:54:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Cline <jcline@physics.mcgill.ca> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org Subject: pitched trill fingerings Message-ID: alpine.DEB.2.20.2208081151360.51315@laxmi.home"><alpine.DEB.2.20.2208081151360.51315@laxmi.home> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Hello, I would like to indicate fingerings for a pitched trill, and also be able to control where they appear. The \set fingeringOrientations = #'(left) is ignored in the trill context, and the fingering is ignored for the secondary note of the trill. Any ideas? regards, Jim \version "2.20.0" \relative c'' { \clef bass \set fingeringOrientations = #'(left) \pitchedTrill a,1*7/8-1\startTrillSpan bes-2 s8 \stopTrillSpan } ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ------------------------------ End of lilypond-user Digest, Vol 237, Issue 26 **********************************************
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