Re: [Axiom-developer] Axiom silver branch

[root]

> I'm not proposing this seriously, but thought it worths mentioning:
> in the Perl community, the updated can compute the dependencies, and
> automatically download the missing bits (if permitted).  Food for
> thought. 

I spent about 2 days in CPAN hell. I installed a perl script.
It required an http module which was available on CPAN. I copied
the module which required a socket module. I copied it also.
That module required a time module. 

Seeing the inevitable I installed the automatic CPAN installer.
Then I set it free to install the time module. It installed over
100 other modules and then stopped because there was a loop in
the version dependencies that it could not resolve. And I had NO
idea why it even needed these modules.

I eventually erased ALL perl scripts on my system and dropped the project.


The moral of the story is that the dependency idea is fundamentally flawed.

Everyone assumes you can just 'automatically download gcl' and it will 
install. But my experience with this using CPAN, CTAN, Redhat's RPM
manager, debian's apt-get, and now fedora's yum is that IF it works then
it is great. But if it fails it (a) fails badly in obscure places and
(b) leaves my system broken in various ways.

After 36 years these computers contain my life's work. My working life
depends on reliable, working computers and I carefully manage the
configuration of these systems.  I am VERY, VERY reluctant to let some
random script 'upgrade' my whole computer system.

Carefully preface the comment that you 'automatically install gcl'
or 'automatically install noweb' or 'automatically install libXpm.a'
with:
  ASSUMING THE 35 PREREQUISITES SUCCESSFULLY INSTALLED....

You see, you have NO control over what SOMEONE ELSE claims to be a
prerequisite. And these get DYNAMICALLY extended over time. So now
GCL apparently depends on emacs. And emacs depends on a whole lot
of other things. Do you intend to force everyone to install or
upgrade their emacs? I won't EVER allow a script to upgrade my emacs.
EVER. 

Depending on 'automatically install gcl' is handwaving about magic.

Maybe the magic always works for you. It never does for me.

Axiom as it exists now 
 a) depends on very little
 b) never writes outside of its own directory (not even tmp files)
 c) builds everywhere (or tries to)

If a silver version of the system 'just works' I can be convinced
that it is a reasonable idea. But if installing axiom requires
installing gcl and installing gcl requires installing/upgrading emacs
there is no hope.

The Old Curmudgeon
t