Re: NeXT GNU Homage Project Work

[Paul Ward]

On 15 Nov 2015, at 06:26, Adam S wrote:

> Paul - " Is the plan to turn Raspbian into something akin to, say,  
> OPENSTEP 4.2 for Mach?
>
> Personally, I feel that's easily possible (just a script that  
> invokes 'configure' with options so that all the GNUstep directories  
> live in root, ala Rhapsody/OSX.)"
>
> Adam - I think this is absolutely the way to go. "RASPstep" :) This  
> would look, work and feel like a sort of unofficial NeXTStep/ 
> OPENSTEP X.0. Look, feel and function as close to NeXTStep as  
> possible but also running natively in Raspbian and opening up all  
> the functions and protocols for computing in 2015.
>
> What would we be missing (app/function wise)? I can keep on talking  
> to the ex NeXT developer community to see if we help plug any code  
> gaps.
Applications provided by OPENSTEP 4.2 User:
  o Edit.app - we have this.
  o FaxReader.app - I don't think we'd need this.
  o Grab.app - I've seen some code (I can't remember whose) that  
could be used for this.
  o Librarian.app - complex.
  o Mail.app - we have this.
  o Preferences.app - I have a fuzzy memory of an OSX-like  
preferences app for GNUstep at some point.
  o Preview.app - I think we have something similar.
  o PrintManager.app - I'm not sure if we have anything similar to  
this.
  o Terminal.app - we have this.

Developer applications:
  o FileMerge.app - I'm not sure if we have anything similar.
  o HeaderViewer.app - I don't think we have anything similar.
  o IconBuilder.app - We probably don't have anything similar.
  o InterfaceBuilder.app - Gorm.
  o MallocDebug.app - Definitely doesn't exist for GNUstep.
  o ProjectBuilder.app - ProjectCenter.
  o Yap.app - We have the source code for this anyhow.

Admin applications:
  o BuildDisk.app
  o Configure.app - not really needed, as it's a driver configuration  
tool
  o HostManager.app
  o Installer.app
  o NetInfoManager.app
  o NetInstallHelper.app
  o NFSManager.app
  o SimpleNetworkStarter.app
  o UserManager.app

Other handy demo apps:
  o OpenSesame - think sudo and/or policykit.
  o BackSpace - I believe InnerSpace is the GNUstep flavour of this?

Librarian is probably something that would be hard to create as of  
right now, as we'd want IndexingKit. Perhaps someone knows if Don  
Yacktman is still around, last I heard MiscKit had IndexingKit.

Wrt OpenSesame, we'd probably want to ignore the 'NXHost' side of that  
application, though it would most likely be trivial to implement --  
it's just that most X server installs these days disallow remote  
client connections by default.

The admin apps are also something better off written from scratch.   
NeXT platforms utilise NetInfo for configuration management, rather  
than files under /etc/.  Although Apple released NetInfo as open  
source, I'm not convinced it will be something we'd want to bother  
with -- given the many hoops I have to jump through to get my Ubuntu  
15.04 system to mount my OPENSTEP 4.2 NFS shares, I probably wouldn't  
be eager to join a GNU/Linux + GNUstep box to my NetInfo domain.

> PS - I had an email from Larry Tessler yesterday (he of the Copy &  
> Paste PARC/Apple), it was for a separate project but I'll guess he  
> might know some handy people. I'll ask!
I'm not all that sure that would be of use here.  Sources for NeXT  
stuff is beyond our grasp (with the exception of sources that were  
shipped as demos, such as TextEdit, Yap et al).

However with that said, we don't really need sources... we just need  
someone willing to sit down with ProjectCenter+Gorm.

> On Nov 15, 2015 12:29 AM, "Paul Ward" <asmodai@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 14 Nov 2015, at 15:52, Riccardo Mottola wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> (removing most CC'd people, since they can read us on the mailing  
> list)
>
> Adam S wrote:
> So - we have a passion for NeXTStep and GNUStep, and its really key  
> that we keep GNU going and inject some life back into it.
>
> Granted :) Or I wouldn't be working for GNU-related stuff. Seeing  
> where proprietary OS's are going
>
> Open to discussion of course, but how I feel we can do this is by  
> working together and develop GNUStep into something great which acts  
> as both a homage to NeXTStep OS but also gives us the opportunity to  
> develop our "one day I want to do..." projects!
>
>
> Sure. GNUstep is just a piece, the foundation where you can build  
> on. Actually, you need an underlying OS, but there you have a broad  
> choice and that is what I like in GNUstep.
> - Almost any Linux Flavour
> - FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD work nowadays all very well with  
> GNUstep! Remember that NeXT was BSD based
> - Solaris from version 8+ (although 7 perhaps still works). Due to  
> thread stuff we dropped vintage 2.5/2.6 so if you have a trusty  
> SparcStation either you upgrade OS or change to a BSD flavour
> - limited but working Windows support (I need to try ReactOS)
>
> I don't know how Darwin fits
>
>
> I haven't paid attention to Darwin since the OpenDarwin project  
> folded, though I understand that there's a new effort called  
> PureDarwin.  I assume GNUstep will support it, as Darwin is just Xnu  
> + FreeBSD.
>
> Being honest, hacking up a Darwin+GNUstep 'distro' has been an itch  
> I've been meaning to scratch for a long time -- with the caveat that  
> anything created during such an effort be portable so that others  
> can use it with their preferred platform (for example, I wrote a  
> 'uname' tool for NeXT platforms that can also be used on OSX as it  
> makes use of Mach calls -- this wouldn't work on other systems).
>
> As an example I'm working on Cuboid, a mini replica NeXT Cube using  
> Raspbian and GNU. I've already had help and support from Richard and  
> Riccardo, and I can't wait to share the end result with everyone!
>
> Is the plan to turn Raspbian into something akin to, say, OPENSTEP  
> 4.2 for Mach?
>
> Personally, I feel that's easily possible (just a script that  
> invokes 'configure' with options so that all the GNUstep directories  
> live in root, ala Rhapsody/OSX.)  The biggest issue here is that not  
> all required applications exist for GNUstep -- unless Etoile has  
> some that we could modify.
>
> Ok - so do we want to do this through this email, LinkedIn or a  
> Google group maybe?
>
>
> I retrict LinkedIn to professional use. Like facebook for work :)  
> also quite filled nowadays with marketing and propaganda.
> While having GNUstep there might help our "business image" home  
> projects like yours perhaps find a better place elsewhere.
> I'd prefer not using Google+. Perhaps facebook is fine, put shiny  
> pictures in our group :)
>
> However, if you have technical issues, questions and discussion  
> about the libraries and most applications, just use the Mailing list  
> here. Most of the Steppers read this place, so it is the place where  
> you are most likely to get an answer!
>
>
> I've just subscribed to discuss-gnustep, so I'm happy to keep this  
> here.
>
> Regards,
> Paul.

Paul Ward
Lisp Programmer
asmodai@gmail.com