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Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode
From: |
Kévin Le Gouguec |
Subject: |
Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode |
Date: |
Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:45:15 +0200 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) |
(Apologies for the duplicate message Alan, I hit reply instead of
followup.)
Alan Mackenzie <address@hidden> writes:
> Hello, Kévin.
>
>> - I don't think I will ever manage to remember any of the keybindings
>> for the outline-(show|hide)-… functions, which means I will never be
>> able to use the "selective display" feature advertised in
>> outline-mode's docstring without a cheatsheet.
>
> Neither can I. When I need it, which is rarely, there's C-h m.
As I said in my reply to Drew, this is what I call a "cheatsheet" :)
I have no complaint about C-h m, C-h b, C-c C-h, as long as I need them
"rarely", as you say. When reading an outline, I _frequently_ open and
close headings.
>> - With org-mode, I can simply TAB my way through a document without
>> figuring out whether what I want to show/hide are entries, subtrees,
>> children, branches, leaves, sublevels, bodies…
>
> But you can't use TAB to indent a line, or alternatively to insert a tab
> character.
A fair point, though correct me if I'm wrong, but it does not look like
we indent NEWS entries?
org-mode has a few ways to work around this conflict:
- TAB on an "empty" heading (e.g. right after one inserts a heading)
cycles through section levels (by adding/removing asterisks),
- If org-indent-mode is nil, sections bodies are "hard-indented"; TAB on
section bodies indents them to (1+ section-level), C-j auto-indents
new lines.
(Frustratingly, org-mode uses what I think of as the "old" convention
to use RET as "plain newline" and C-j as "smart newline with indent".)
- If org-indent-mode is t, bodies are "soft-indented" (with line-prefix
and wrap-prefix).
Any of these could be useful additions to outline-mode IMO.
> And how is a non-specialist user reading NEWS for a new
> release going to find out about this TAB binding?
By default, org-mode only shows top-level section headings; subheadings
and bodies are elided. The ellipsis is a visual cue that there are
things to expand.
Once the non-specialist user has this "EXPAND-ME" cue, admittedly they
still need to learn the binding. Luckily with org-mode, there's just
one: TAB.
I wish I could reply "well obviously the non-specialist user will just
click on the heading and voilà!", but it looks like one needs to
(require 'org-mouse) first. Ah well. No reason this couldn't be
enabled by default in outline-mode.
>> So, while I agree that org-mode is a sledgehammer for e.g. idly browsing
>> NEWS, from a user's point-of-view (at least this user) and to borrow
>> your terms, outline-mode "is a monster" with countless esoteric
>> keybindings;
>
> There are not "countless" keybindings in outline-mode; there are just 26
> defined commands, only some of which will have bindings. By contrast,
> in org-mode there are 798 defined commands. That's a factor of 30
> greater.
Right, let me qualify this better:
- There are 11 commands with bindings for selecive display in
outline-mode (5 show, 6 hide).
- There is only 1 command I care about for selective display in
org-mode: TAB.
>> meanwhile, I definitely don't "have to know" org-mode to use it; I
>> just mindlessly hit TAB on the thing I want to show/hide.
>
> That may be true up until somebody decides to insert some obscure
> org-mode construct into NEWS. With over 4 magabytes of source code
> implementing it, there will be more than a few such constructs.
No argument there; I'm not advocating for using org-mode with NEWS.
Though for all of org-mode's complexity, I have yet to see an Org file
where "mindlessly hitting TAB" does not show/hide the heading at point
(… as long as point is on a heading).
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, (continued)
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Stefan Kangas, 2020/04/26
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Kévin Le Gouguec, 2020/04/26
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Stefan Monnier, 2020/04/26
- RE: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Drew Adams, 2020/04/26
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Kévin Le Gouguec, 2020/04/27
- RE: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Drew Adams, 2020/04/27
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Jean-Christophe Helary, 2020/04/27
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Kévin Le Gouguec, 2020/04/27
- Reveal-mode (was: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode), Stefan Monnier, 2020/04/27
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Alan Mackenzie, 2020/04/27
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode,
Kévin Le Gouguec <=
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Juri Linkov, 2020/04/27
- RE: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Drew Adams, 2020/04/27
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, John Yates, 2020/04/27
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Richard Stallman, 2020/04/27
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Nicolas Goaziou, 2020/04/28
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, H. Dieter Wilhelm, 2020/04/28
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Nicolas Goaziou, 2020/04/28
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, H. Dieter Wilhelm, 2020/04/28
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Juri Linkov, 2020/04/28
- Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode, Nicolas Goaziou, 2020/04/29