Re: Orgmode plain list bullet : change automatically with list depth

[Edouard Debry]

Are you sure bullet lists are irrelevant to org ?

I tried without success to make a list without "-" or "+" in my
*scratch*.

Regards

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> sure.
>>
>> iiuc i think op wants 2 things:
>>
>>   1] graphical bullets.  i.e. not the - + etc. that are in the org
>> plain text as saved to disk.
>>   2] each level of a list to have the same bullet style
>>
>>
>> examples of 2]:
>>
>> a conforming list:
>>
>> - this is level 1.  for this list, we always want level 1 to
>>   use the - bullet style in the org plain text.
>>   + this is level 2.  for this list, we always want level 2
>>     to use the + bullet style in the org plain text.
>>   + another level 2
>> - another level 1
>>   + another level 2
>>   + the + is CONSISTENT with the + in the level 2 of the
>>     previous list item
>>
>>
>> a non-conforming list:
>>
>>
>> - this is level 1.  for this list, we always want level 1 to
>>   use the - bullet style in the org plain text.
>>   + this is level 2.  for this list, we always want level 2
>>     to use the + bullet style in the org plain text.
>>   + another level 2
>> - another level 1
>>   * another level 2
>>   * these * markers are INCONSISTENT with the + markers in
>>     the level 2 previous list item.
>>
>>
>> the idea is for org [as opposed to fontification] to enforce this
>> level correspondence.  whenever we do a bullet style change at any
>> level, org could change ALL BULLETS AT THE SAME LEVEL.  this keeps the
>> list conforming.
>>
>> currently, org does not do this.  instead, it allows you to
>> say that /demotion/ makes a + when you have a -.  but
>> without enforcement, the list can quickly become
>> non-conforming after the user edits it.
>>
>> this idea is independent (orthogonal) to fontification /
>> displayed graphical glyph.  i think op's 2] idea can make
>> sense.  and then fontification / displayed graphical glyph
>> can be done perhaps with a fontification package.
>>
>> in any case, fontification can merely say that + looks
>> like 😺 or so.  orthogonal to levels.
>>
>>
>
> Sorry, but I think this idea is misguided. 
>
> The 'bullets' in lists are largely irrelevant to org. Lists are
> determined by the indentation level. I don't think org actually cares
> about wither an item starts with '-', '+', or '*'. I also don't think it
> matters (from an org perspective) if a list has a mix of different
> bullets. This might be 'offensive' for users, but is largely irrelevant
> for org. 
>
> This means the questions now becomes "Do we add the additional complexity
> and possible performance hit to enforce bullet consistency?" and "Are
> there any use cases where people might want different bullets at the
> same level in a list?". 
>
> As having mixed bullets does not impact on org export, I'm inclined to
> leave this as a user issue i.e. if you want things to be consistent,
> then be consistent. The current behaviour I think is pretty good i.e. if
> you start using a different bullet, new items at the same level will use
> that bullet and when you shift an item to be at the parent level, it
> will change the bullet to be the same as the parents. If you indent an
> item, it will use the same bullet as the parent, but you can change it
> and then all additional items at that level will use the same bullet. 
>
> As the bullet type has no baring on org's processing of lists, I think
> this is a purely presentation issue and therefore anything we want to do
> wrt enforcement should in fact occur at the font-lock layer. e.g. allow
> code which will just set the bullet to some preferred mapping based on
> level. As the user won't see which 'real' character is being used, it
> won't matter if it uses mixed bullet styles. This also has the advantage
> that the user can just use the one bullet 'type' and see different
> bullet rendering based on level, so you won't have any 'inconsistency'
> anyway as all entries just use the same bullet.