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Re: Website translations with Haunt

From: ng0
Subject: Re: Website translations with Haunt
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 22:29:49 +0000

pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) transcribed 2.4K bytes:
> On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 06:15:29PM +0000, ng0 wrote:
> > Hey Florian,
> > 
> > interesting work. I opened a bug a very long time ago for Guix,
> > and the content applied to Guile (as well as to the project
> > I initiated (infotropique) and very likely many other Haunt
> > using websites like Haunt itself, 8sync, etc).
> > 
> > I've seen the first versions of this a while back in the code
> > for your website, I'll check out the changes soon, exciting work!
> >
> Oh, thank you. :) Some code is not clean and more proof-of-concept.
> > My idea was a reimplementation of prep (a text format and html document
> > generator that is capable to include multiple languages in its source
> > files, written by lynX back in the early 90s (or earlier) iirc (and
> > still used today).
> >
> Hmm I can find neither prep nor lynX in a quick Web search.

lynX is the author of many things, among them the psyc and psyc2 protol,
psyced, the /me command in IRC etc. this page is generated from prep:
( should show more).

So prep is at git:// unless I have used the
wrong .org name for the onion I use for it.

git clone git:// should show one project, how
a complete website can look like. I've only helped with the translation
of one article on a different website. It's definitely interesting to
work with.

> Po files are separate from the source code files.  I don’t know if
> prep has such a separation or if such a separation really is better.
> Then again, another issue with HTML/SHTML is that e.g. a hyperlink within
> the text is difficult to handle with traditional format strings
> without breaking the separation:
>  * The link text should be translated in the context of the text
>    surrounding the link
>  * but the link formatting and maybe the link destination URL maybe
>    should not be changeable by the translator.
> Does prep handle this?

To some extent. prep is not SGML. It's been a while since I've looked
into it but basically you have a unique syntax. The following snippet
(from pages/my/convivenza.mlm) doesn't show it's full usage,
but it show how links are handled:

I)#section Approfondimenti
D)#section Vertiefung
E)#section Further Reading

Piratenpartei, Analyse zur Bundestagswahl 2013: Disziplin und Fairness];
<li>(en) [ Andrew 
Reitemeyer, What is Happening in Germany];
<li>(en) [ carlo von lynX, How to build a 
Participatory Political Party: Stop the Hurting], citing (en) Rick Falkvinge, 
Swarmwise – Paragraphs on Infighting and Moderation;
I)<li>(it) [ 
Classificazione delle fallacie];
DE)<li>(en) [ Logical Fallacies];
[ yourlogicalfallacyis…], 
## <li>(en) [ What Does 
Research Say about the Nature of Computer-mediated Communication?], 2002: 
«Kiesler et al. (1985) reported that they could not find any influence of CMC 
environments on physiological arousal, nor on emotions or self-evaluations. In 
addition, Kiesler et al. found that participants in CMC groups evaluated each 
other lower than those in FtF groups. From the perspective of Kiesler et al. 
(1985), CMC environments were impersonal.»;
## <li>(en) Kiesler, Sproull, 
[ Group 
decision making and communication technology]: «Experiments show that, compared 
with a face-to-face meeting, a computer-mediated discussion leads to delays; 
more explicit and outspoken advocacy; “flaming;” more equal participation among 
group members; and more extreme, unconventional, or risky decisions.»;
## (((fn (en) 
The Universal Rules of Civilized Discourse], 2013: «The principles in the 
default Discourse community behavior FAQ were distilled, as best we could, from 
the common, shared community guidelines of more than 50 forums active for a 
decade or more.»)))
<li>(it) [ discussione strutturata 
sulla Convivenza, 2014];
<li>(it) [ GdL Stru, 
Raccomandazioni Strutturali per facilitare una Partecipazione Orizzontale 
all'AltraEuropa, 2014];

D)#section Alternative Ansätze
E)#section Alternative Approaches

DE)Restorative Justice\
DE)(((fn (en) 
Restorative Justice])))
D)versteht sich eine Methode, Frieden zwischen den Mitwirkenden zu schaffen 
durch quasi-öffentlicher Aussprache und Einigung auf Maßnahmen zur 
Wiederherstellung einer Gerechtigkeit.
E)is a method to re-establish peace between the participants by nearly public 
ventilation and agreement on measures to restore justice.
D)Die Einfachheit dieses Ansatzes ist verlockend, wahrt allerdings nicht die 
Bedürfnisse nach Privatsphäre der Mitwirkenden, weswegen ein gewähltes 
Schiedsgericht diese Herausforderung besser erfüllen kann.
E)The simplicity of this method is inviting, it doesn't however take the needs 
for privacy of the participants in consideration, whereby a Court of 
Arbitration can serve a better job.
D)Ausserdem setzt es erst nach entstandenem Schaden an, während unserer Ansatz 
auf Prävention zielt.
E)Also, it only comes into play after damage done, whereas our approach is 
oriented on prevention.

I)#section Fonti
D)#section Quellen
E)#section References
## I)#section Annotazioni
## D)#section Fußnoten
## E)#section Footnotes


#space 4
#repost convivenza

while the format for links [ ], []() etc can be defined as far as I remember.
So far I haven't done very much on this. I've had a chat about prep with its
developer, and that's about it.
To my best knowledge nothing has been developed that allows to conveniently
define multiple languages in one source file outside from plain S/XML, and
this is what I find interesting about prep. Wether I end up writing a 
in Guile or not, there are some interesting ideas that could possibly be applied
to your approach.
I'll need some time to find time to compare the two approaches and find 

Maybe my reply already helps, with reading the provided (really small) codebase
of prep.

> Regards,
> Florian

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