Re: [Help-liquidwar6] Web page, team profiles, weapons & voxels

[Kasper Hviid]

Hello again!

Christian, I still haven't got that final website worked out, but in
the meantime heres some quick feedback. I'm truly impressed by your
recent activity ... wave effects, respawn-delay ... amazing! :-O

VOXELS
------

This is great news! I considered asking about the visual appearence of
fighters, but felt that you had too many balls in the air already. I
have played Minecraft, but I didn't even knew it was called voxels.
I'm very new to this. Designing 3D pixelart really sounds like fun ..
but a static 16*16*16 voxel seen from above is impossible to tell
apart from a 16*16 bitmap sprite ... how should we take advantage of
the 3D shape?

SPECIAL EFFECTS
---------------

Some brainstorm about which visual effects could be applied when a
player uses his special action:

- Shaking of the screen
- Music video zoom: The camera zooms in and out quickly
- Fighters changes brightness randomly.
- Team cursors changes.
- Sound effects.
- Different wave effect


TEAM COLORS
-----------

A few points irritates me, but I'm not sure anything can be done:

It is a bit confusing that Fast also increases the numbers of attacks
and thus makes the attacks stronger. So if I just want to make the
team move around faster, I would have to increase Fast, but I would
have to decrease Aggressive to make it stay somewhat the same.

I think Attack, Defence and Speed would sound more logical than
Aggressive, Vulnerable and Fast. But we have used those words for
other concepts ... sword, shield and shoes?

Anyways ...

I have created a new set of team settings. It is based on the colors
position in the color circle. Long wavelength equals faster speed.

The settings are not perfect and adjustment will be needed, but each
team has a fixed concept, like "EXTREMELY fast, but also very
vulnerable." Red, green, and yellow has a single strong point. The
rest of the teams has a single strong point and a single weak point.

I have not used any neutral team this time. I felt it was an illusion
to declare a certain team the normal one. Sure, we could give a team
some average values and call it "normal". But calculating the average
skin color of humans does not mean that we have discovered the skin
color of "normal" humans. I felt that a "normal" color worked against
the asymmetrical concept.

I have uploaded a file with a rules.xml and a description called team-colors.pdf

The upload also contains a new fumes.png with a mirrored sky theme,
created with widescreen monitors in mind.

Download: (same file, different hosts)
http://hotfile.com/dl/128763372/8b0d0e7/lwfiles.zip.html
http://depositfiles.com/files/puxlzlw4k
http://www.easy-share.com/1917903693/lwfiles.zip
http://www.filefactory.com/file/cd7bcf7/n/lwfiles.zip
http://www.megashare.com/3559290


2011/8/29 Christian Mauduit <address@hidden>:
> Hi,
>
>> I have tried going in various directions. There is still a lot of time
>> left before deadline, but I'd like to hear what you think so far.
>>
>> DOWNLOAD:
>> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1WE6Q5AV
>>
>> The .zip file contains three layouts:
>>
>> "lw6-homepage - BW1"
>>  - Pure black and white. (early version, so old links)
>>
>> "lw6-homepage - BW7 - links"
>>  - I tried using a greyscale theme.
>>
>> "lw6-homepage - BW11 - adjust2"
>>  - I got the idea of using all the colors in the palette, so that no
>> color is dominating.
> Using all the colors in the palette is indeed a way to go, the rainbow option
> does not favor anyone indeed. Ideally, we should match the "special" palette
> (the 10 team colors) used by the game. Anyway, the two others proved more
> readable (maybe just because of the brightness/contrast and the fact this one
> has a background texture).
>
> I like the "shade" in the big "Liquid War 6" of the "- links" version, however
> the plain "BW1" is still more readable, maybe something in between. Note that
> "Liquid War 6" contains 10 letters (just like "10 colors"). Dunno if this is
> usefull. IMHO BW1 could just be put online this way, would already look much
> better than current page, obviously.
>
> Oh, and I do think the source download deserves a button two, might sound
> crazy for some people but there's a bunch of geeks arround that will never
> download anything but a source (I have to admit I sort of belong to that
> category). So it's good to have it stick out like any other download. My
> opinion is that it's fine to put it on the same line than the .deb and .rpm.
> That way we have a first line with 3 buttons, then another line with 2 (mac &
> win) then the final extra maps package. Makes a triangle. What do you think?
>
> Now I've been bug-fixing and tuning lately, FYI the famous "wave effect" of
> version 5 is back, which is IMHO pretty cool. Additionnally, zooming in/out on
> wrapping levels with polarity enabled does work properly, it's fun to use. If
> you can manage to build the current snapshots, give it a try.
>
> Now, about the "dog" level:
>
>> "DOG" is an empty level where I have played around with the team profile
> values:
>> red      This is the normal one
>> green   (discrete adjustment:) slow and weak attack, but strong defence
>> blue     (discrete adjustment:) a bit slow, but strong attack
>> yellow  (discrete adjustment:) slightly faster, but weak defence
>> cyan    slow, but strong attack and defence (I like this one)
>> magenta strong attack ... weak defence
>> orange   Fast ... but weak defence
>> light blue  Handicapped
>> purple   weak attack and slow, but strong defence
>> pink    Victim
> OK, I did give it a try, and for sure some of your teams have a strong bias
> (cyan is slooooow!!!!). At the same time, it's cool to have these teams very
> different. I suspect you should make yellow even weaker (vulnerable) for being
> fast is truly an advantage, means you attack & heal & move faster.
>
> But globally, I like it, might be the default for next release. But wait...
>
> ...to keep this "specialize my teams" spree, here's the new (updated!) list of
> "weapons" I plan to implement. First note there are 20 of them, my bet is we
> can go the "fire + alternate fire" option, it's not implemented yet, but I'll
> just make it so that, for instance, left button is weapon 1 and right button
> is weapon 2. Then maybe map CTRL and ALT keys on keyboard, shouldn't be that
> long. To some extent it's a big change for it significantly increases the
> number of buttons/keys to control the game, but I think it's worth it. I
> recently had a look on a WIImote and it still has enough buttons to be
> elegantly "mapped" for the game. That's a sign we're on the right track ;)
>
> Here's a copy/paste from current ker-internal.h
>
> -----8<-------------------------------------
> /*
>  * BEZERK: has super-strong attack for a limited time
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_BEZERK 0
> /*
>  * INVINCIBLE: no damage for a limited time
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_INVINCIBLE 1
> /*
>  * ESCAPE: fighters are put in the farest position,
>  * that is as far as possible from the cursor. If one
>  * is trapped, this will cause all fighters to magically
>  * escape from any grip.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_ESCAPE 2
> /*
>  * TURBO: goes faster for a limited time (stronger, faster)
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_TURBO 3
> /*
>  * TELEPORT: fighters are instantaneously placed as close
>  * as possible to the cursor.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_TELEPORT 4
> /*
>  * SCATTER: every fighters of every teams are just scattered
>  * in random places all over the map. The proportion of fighters
>  * in every team, their health and so on, is preserved, but
>  * they are just put anywhere like stars in the sky.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_SCATTER 5
> /*
>  * FIX: all the other teams are immobilized for some time,
>  * only the team firing this weapon can move, but it can't
>  * attack. Note that if you're trapped, this might not
>  * be of great help.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_FIX 6
> /*
>  * MIX: all the fighters of every teams are mixed, positions
>  * are exchanged in a random manner, they globally stay at the
>  * same place, but it's like they were stirred in a bowl.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_MIX 7
> /*
>  * CONTROL: your cursor stays in place, and you take control
>  * of all other cursors for a limited time, just drag the other
>  * teams where you want.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_CONTROL 8
> /*
>  * PERMUTATION: teams are exchanged, for instance red becomes
>  * green, green becomes blue and blue becomes red. Works only
>  * if there are at least 3 teams on the battlefield. How the
>  * swap/exchange is done depends on moon phases, this is a
>  * double-edged weapon.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_PERMUTATION 9
> /*
>  * STEAL: steal some other fighters from other teams.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_STEAL 10
> /*
>  * ATOMIC: nuclear explosion, all fighters in a circle
>  * near the caller's cursor are set to minimal health,
>  * ready to die.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_ATOMIC 11
> /*
>  * REVERSE: moves continue to operate the right way but
>  * attacks are done in reverse mode, that is if you were trapped
>  * then you get maximal attack, fighting against those
>  * pursuing you. Limited time of course.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_REVERSE 12
> /*
>  * CRAZY: for some time, all other teams just go crazy and
>  * move/attack in random directions.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_CRAZY 13
> /*
>  * REWIND: make the battlefield be like it was X seconds ago.
>  * X (the time shift) depends on settings and what is available
>  * in memory.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_REWIND 14
> /*
>  * ATTRACT: all the fighters from every team are packed near
>  * the caller's cursor.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_ATTRACT 15
> /*
>  * SHRINK: diminishes the amount of fighters on the map, in a
>  * proportionnal manner.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_SHRINK 16
> /*
>  * KAMIKAZE: requires at least 3 teams to be on the battlefield,
>  * you die and with you dies the one who was the strongest
>  * at this moment.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_KAMIKAZE 17
> /*
>  * DISAPPEAR: you disappear for some time, not on the battlefield
>  * anymore, just to reappear later, with the same number of
>  * fighters, in the same state, but somewhere else.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_DISAPPEAR 18
> /*
>  * PLAGUE: general disease for everyone including you, everyone
>  * constantly looses health for some time.
>  */
> #define _LW6KER_WEAPON_PLAGUE 19
> -----8<-------------------------------------
>
> As of today, only BEZERK INVINCIBLE and TURBO are implemented. Others are not
> that hard anyway.
>
> This was to feed you with ideas to "personnalize" teams. I really hope to have
> a significant number of these weapons implemented for next release. The idea
> would be to have, per color, a primary weapon and an alternate weapon. We'd
> keep the idea of having red/green/blue/yellow with fair equivalent settings.
> Note the alternate fire/weapons would be a feature that would be available
> only after "some time".
>
> Finally, I lately came with a new idea for a renderer, I was just trying to
> figure out how to make all this look nicer, was considering different options
> and came to the conclusion that a "reasonnable yet innovative" way to go was
> to use a voxel engine. No kidding. Voxels do have their drawbacks, problems,
> but in the very special case of LW, I think it's possible to implement
> something limited (not a real all-purpose voxel engine) that still runs fast
> enough but does have this very special look voxel renderers have. The idea
> would be to have 16x16x16 "pixel art" sprites to represent the fighters. We
> could even consider having a different set of sprites for each color... AFAIK
> software like http://www.qubicle-constructor.com/ can help designing such
> stuff, it's proprietary but the XML output format is easily readable. This
> voxel engine is probably not going to be ready any time soon, but I thought
> you'd be interested to know what sort of technology I'm after. The general
> idea is that to represent a LW6 map and go beyond the "big square" we have
> now, we can either use 2D sprites, or use vertexes/triangles like any OpenGL
> game does. Problem is that with numerous fighters we'll end up with triangles
> that are very small on the screen, and this is where even modern hardware does
> fail, we touch the limits of the vertex system. OTOH voxels are happy with
> exhibiting little details, the problem is usually RAM to store the scene but
> in LW6 we can use an "index" (like old-school 2D with tiled & aligned sprites
> did).
>
> OK, thanks for reading, and have a nice day,
>
> Christian.
>
> --
> Christian Mauduit <address@hidden> - http://www.ufoot.org  ___ __/\__
> Liquid War 6 - http://www.gnu.org/software/liquidwar6      / _")\~ \~/
> "Les amis de la vérité sont ceux qui la cherchent et non _/ /   /_ o_\
> ceux qui se vantent de l'avoir trouvée" - Condorcet     (__/      \/
>
>
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