Re: Transposed Chord name "F flat"

[Arno Waschk]

Beware, long post, but some on-topic remarks in the end...


On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 01:12:51 +0100 (CET), Johannes Schindelin  
<address@hidden> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Arno Waschk wrote:
>
> > Well, it is both sure that Bach did not invent a tuning system with  
> > equal
> > intervals [...]
>
> Interesting! If you have a CD recording of Bach himself, I would like to
> have a copy!

As you probably know, here in Germany we have original organs from that  
time with original instructions how to tune them. And we have lots of  
writings how to tune pianos in different possible ways (Those Werckmeister  
things, and many others). The idea of practically using perfectly equal  
semitones' intervals is relatively new (end of 19th century, i think),  
compared to the theoretical idea (beginning of 16th century).
And we know that those people preferred having different big thirds and  
forths on the keyboard!

> And regarding certain keys having different characters than
> others: everybody with absolute pitch - and even some without - will  
> agree
> that it changes the character for example of the Pathetique if you change
> the key. I do not have absolute pitch, but I can tell if it is the right
> key or not. That has nothing to do with temperament.

Probably not. Although i did not test that with perfectly tempered  
computer sounds, which you never will have on a piano (Tuners are humans).  
The good news is that we are all born with perfect pitch, so as babies we  
perfectly recognize the pitches of our mother's voice. So maybe the idea  
of somebody not having perfect pitch does not really exist. You might not  
have developped yours as far as others, but you telling the right key  
might be the effect of a partial perfect pitch.

> > I find Einstein's mathematics much more beautiful. Not that i understand
> > all of it...
>
> I do understand all of Einstein's wife's mathematics (after all, it was
> her doing all the tedious calculations). And there are parts which seem  
> to
> be more complicated than they should be in order to appear "beautiful".

Well, matter of taste, no? There is sorts of complications i can find  
beautiful personally. Not-equally tempered scales belong to them. Might be  
just me (and Mr. Harnoncourt...)

> > By the way, no piano is tuned equally temperedly.
>
> Oh well, I'd better sue Kawai then.

No, don't. You will hate the equally temperedly piano sound. All octaves  
will sound too small, more or less. At least when being played  
simultaneously.

> > Alphorns are not exactly suitable to perform a thing like a  
> > subdominante,
>
> yes they are. Just not in the lowest octave. But then, you normally do  
> not
> play the lowest octave anyway.

That alphorn music i know does not have a thing like a subdominante. Even  
theoretically it would be complicated to create pieces containing that.

> > Yodeling temperament comes from beer rather than from theoretical ideas.
>
> Yodeling comes not from beer, believe me.

Maybe not from, but often together with...
I was not too serious about that remark, by the way.

> > Yodeling is out of tune by definition. I am bavarian, believe me.
>
> I occasionally do it myself. It comes straight from the heart.

So, tell us: Is your heart equally tempered?

> And it is
> not at all out of tune. I am not Bavarian, but I am honoured to have
> friends who can enchant me with their yodeling, and sometimes I even take
> part in the whole.

"out of tune" was not meant to be "bad" at all. It is true the way it is.

> If you didn't spend some hours climbing a mountain and enjoyed this
> wonderful music high above the woods, echoing in perfect harmony from
> mountainsides far away, you have missed something.

I did do those things. This is why i said that beer is involved more often  
than not.


> And I agree with another poster, this discussion doesn't belong here.

Oops, that might be true.

So here is the on-topic content:

I would vote for an option lilypond enabling to produce more easily  
readable harmonies in addition to the nowadays behaviour, which seems to  
be needed, too, for a certain correctness.

Greetings, Arno



--
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