Re: lilypond-devel Digest, Vol 118, Issue 55

[David Kastrup]

Graham Percival <address@hidden> writes:

> On Fri, Sep 07, 2012 at 05:09:06PM +0200, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
>> 
>> Seriously, I don't really see the point of a separate mailing list.
>> We are already so used to long discussions on lilypond-devel. Also,
>> I expect a fairly large portion of the current subscribers to
>> lilypond-devel would join in on the new list.
>
> However, some members of lilypond-devel are actively hostile to
> novel crazy ideas.  I mean, I knew that there was no way that
> people would like the /.\ prefix-postfix-neutral idea.  It was an
> experiment to see whether we could have a polite discussion about
> a crazy idea.

If you consider using the developer list as a social experimenting
ground polite in itself...

> Some people _did_ discuss it nicely, but others over-reacted and nuked
> the idea with prejudice.  I cannot in good faith encourage other
> people to submit ideas if they're going to be received in that manner.
> Note that crazy ideas are not necessarily "obviously crazy" to the
> person suggesting it.
>
> I see three options:
>
> 1. social solution: force a radical "culture shift" on -devel
> overnight so that we can have open discussions.  I think that
> things have gotten better over the past few months, but it's still
> not good enough.

In what respect is a discussion where voicing strong disapproval is
prohibited "open"?

> 2. technical solution: create a new mailing list for such
> discussions.  People wanting to do serious work without
> distractions will simply not sign up for the new mailing list;
> those wanting to discuss potentially ideas will do so on the new
> mailing list.
>
> 3. alternate: hold these discussions on the -user list.  I
> wouldn't mind that option, actually.

And what happens when discussions in some "opinioned experts unwelcome"
forum come to a conclusion that will subsequently get the shaft in the
developer list?  I honestly doubt that we will be able to counter the
"developers don't take the users serious" impression you want to avoid.

I don't have a good answer for the problem you try addressing, but I
doubt your answers would work better than what we have.

-- 
David Kastrup