Re: [Synaptic-devel] Distribution switch in main window

[Sebastian Heinlein]

Am Donnerstag, den 26.08.2004, 12:58 +0000 schrieb Jens Hatlak:
> Sebastian Heinlein <address@hidden> wrote:
> > Reloading the package cache also includes the loss of all not yet
> > applied changes. So I would vote against adding simple combobox.
> 
> Your argumentation is right but I disagree with your conclusion. Please
> keep in mind that I always wanted this feature only to be avaialable to
> users in Expert mode. In my opinion I think it's OK to expect an expert to
> know what he's doing.

Hi Jens,

thanks for your interest in the developement of synaptic and sharing
your thoughts. This was not a general objection against your idea. But
it would require some more input. It is not a good idea to not provide
any feedback or warning about massive intrusions of the users work.

> I'm currently running Windows but if I remember correctly, there already is
> a switch for the Expert mode which has to be activated in order to see the
> Expert tab in the preferences. The state of that switch should control if
> one can activate the distribution switch as well. The feature should be off
> by default and activatable in the Expert tab.

I am no fan of splitting up the ui into an expert and a novice part. And
there is no similiar option in Synaptic right now. We have a tab called
"expert" to put off novice users :)

There are some mails in the archive of the list in which we discussed
this issue already. I might search for the relevant entries if you are
interested.

> > May I ask you why you always switch your debian distru? Installing a
> > package from unstable should also include the installation of
> > dependencies from unstable.
> 
> If I remember correctly, that doesn't work all too well (I will re-check
> that the next time I boot Linux). Further more, KDE for example consists of
> dozens of packages and if I want to partly upgrade it, it's much easier to
> completely switch to unstable for a moment and see all avaialable packages
> with their unstable versions, dependencies etc. than trying to install a
> single unstable package while using the testing distribution.

I don't see any benefits in mixing testing with unstable compared to a
complete transition to unstable. So perhaps I not aware about the
problems of this use case.

> > I think that features should be implemented in a "right" (consistent)
> > way and not in a request/quick-hack-manner.
> 
> Agreed, generally. But I don't really see where the problem is. No-one ever
> wanted to have that feature available for users who don't know exactly what
> they're doing. But for users who do know, it's a huge simplification -
> IMHO, of course.

See above. Additionally it would be nicer to have a toolbar editor
instead of adding some more options to the preferences. And there is
always a first time as "expert" user. And I don't see why I should put
an artifical barrier there. 

> >>> It there again in 0.52 under "Packages/Force Version". 
> >> 
> >> OK, but that is rather hard to access, UI-wise.
> > 
> > There is also still room to improve the dialog. E.g. we could replace
> > the combobox by radio buttons.
> 
> The problem is not the combobox but the location: the dialog. I have set
> the package properties to appear in the main window and I liked the old
> behaviour (radio buttons directly accessible in the main window) very much.
> Banning this option away to a dialog forces me to take the long way through
> the menu - it's the same with the distribution switch: In my opinion,
> often-used features should be accessible easily. A dialog takes away the
> focus from the main window. Unless I cannot do anything else anyway while
> it's open (Update, Apply), I don't like this kind of disruption from the
> normal work flow - which happens within the main window.

I wasn't aware that the distribution switch was used so often, too. This
is the first time that I heard about an user actually using it. You
could complain about an additional click but what is the argument about
that you cannot force a different version and reload the package cache
at the same time? How often do you force the installation of another
version?

Regards,

Sebastian