RE: [Axiom-developer] differences wh-sandbox andbuild-improvements

[gdr]

Quoting Bill Page <address@hidden>:

> On April 15, 2007 5:28 PM Gaby wrote:
> > Quoting Bill Page:
> >
> > > On April 15, 2007 5:56 AM Gaby wrote:
> > > ...
> > > > my frustration with windows is only growing.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think it best to avoid the trap that most linux
> > > developers fall into when working with Windows. As
> > > far as I am concerned it is just another operating
> > > system ...
> > >
> >
> > Maybe -- I don't know what trap it is.
>
> The "trap" to which I was referring has been called "Linux
> chauvinism", see for example:
>
> http://www.softpanorama.org/OSS/Bla_faq/raymondism.shtml
>
> by Nikolai Bezroukov
>
> In my own words its something like this: Assuming that because
> one is having trouble in an environment with which one is less
> familiar, that it is therefore inferior and a unnecessary source
> of frustration - sort of opposite to the slogan: "familiarity
> breeds contempt". It is a trap because believing this tends to
> make it seem true.
>
> But I did *not* intend to accuse you of this even by implication.
> Sorry. It's just that I see this statement made very often in
> different ways and I think it tends to perpetuate views that I
> think are undesirable. However frustration, is of course quite
> natural.

I have a functional development environment under windows -- cygwin --
but I cannot use it because GCL does not work under cygwin and I
have been told on this list that windows people don't care about
GCL under cygwin.  I guess the fact that windows people on this list don't
help that much to make concrete forward progress is OK.  Now, I've
been trying to set up a reasonable environment for working on Axiom
with no good result so far and I'm told by non-implicative non-accusation
that I would be suffering from trap known as "linux chauvinism" when nobody
knows what I think of comparison of linux and windows.  I guess that is
fair.  And my problems did not go away.  I guess that is forward progress.

> > ...
> > I'm using m4-1.4.9 and ActivePerl-5.8.9 build 820.
> >
> > > ...
> > > I have:
> > >
> > > $ perl --version
> > >
> > > This is perl, v5.6.1 built for msys
>
> I suppose you meant ActivePerl-5.8.8.820?
>
> http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePerl/more_information.plex
>
> Perl comes in two flavours from ActiveState the 5.6.x track and the
> 5.8.x track. Both are considered current releases. I have 5.8.8 in
> my Windows installation but 5.6.1 in MSYS.
>
> > Bill Page wrote:
> > >
> > > My first guess is that your problem might have something to do
> > > with be the version of Perl that you are using. I have never
> > > used ActivePerl for buidling MSYS/MinGW apps.
> > >
> >
> > Maybe.  But, again, the idea of using ActivePerl for msys/mingw
> > came from mingw website.  I did not pull it out of my hat.
>
> Well, it was only my first guess. But just be sure I renamed my
> MSYS /bin/perl to /bin/old_perl and restarted MSYS so that it
> picks up ActivePerl-5.8.8.820 from my Windows installation. Now
> I can reproduce the error that you reported:
>
> $ perl --version
>
> This is perl, v5.8.8 built for MSWin32-x86-multi-thread
>
> $ cd autoconf-2.61
>
> $ make clean
>
> $ ./configure
> ...
> $ make
> ...
> autom4te_perllibdir='..'/lib AUTOM4TE_CFG='../lib/autom4te.cfg'
>         ../bin/autom4te -B '..'/lib -B '..'/lib
>         --language M4sh --cache '' --melt ./autoconf.as -o autoconf.in
> The system cannot find the path specified.
> autom4te: need GNU m4 1.4 or later: /usr/local/bin/m4
> make[1]: *** [autoconf.in] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/Administrator/autoconf-2.61/bin'
> make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1

yes.

> address@hidden ~/autoconf-2.61
>
>
> > >
> > >>
> > >> > Apparently you can also install autoconf-2.61 and m4-1.4.7
> > >> > binaries from:
> > >> >
> > >> > http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=148008
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> yes, i donwloaded the autoconf package from there last night;
> > >> I've not tried that version yet.
> > >
> > > Let me know how it turns out.
> > >
> >
> > not well -- my Perl is not /bin/perl.
>
> Do you mean that they assume that perl is in /bin/perl?

Yes. Have a look at autom4te.

> > >> ...
> > >> > Is there any particular reason you want to continue using
> > >> > the older version autoconf-2.60?
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> my three main linux boxes are running that version,
> > >>
> > >
> > > I recommend that we go to autoconf-2.61 for all Axiom builds.
> > >
> >
> > As long as you prepare and commit all my patches, I'm fine with
> > that.
>
> Gee, that sounds familiar. Where did I hear that before? Oh,
> sorry. I forgot. This is the Axiom open source project - the
> one where each developer chooses there own flavor and version
> of the basic tools ... I with draw my recommendation. Let's
> just all continue to do it our own way. ;)

I believe you got it wrong; even with a smiley.
There are several "rules" I've developed over the years, while
maintaining linux boxes, that include:
 (1) don't mess with "system" tools packaged by linux distros;
 (2) duplicating tools under /usr/local, sooner or later causes
     troubles.
 (3) install system tools under /usr/local only when they solve
     fundamental problems.

I suspect you'd have much more effective impact at explaining me
how automake-2.61 fare vis-a-vis the above three rules.



> Regards,
> Bill Page.