Re: Friendlier dired experience [CODE INCLUDED]

[Jean Louis]

* Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com> [2020-11-08 15:45]:
> On 2020-11-08 13:09, Arthur Miller wrote:
> > Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com> writes:
> >
> > > That's why I never end up actually ever using your extensions, Drew. I
> > > think they're great and I enjoy reading them, but it always ends up
> > > intimidating me with a sense of overkill.
> > But if an extension is overkill, how is then creaing entire system
> > instead not? :-) Sorry, I just can't resist to ask.
> 
> Fair. The diredc "system" is only a few lines of code, with nothing at
> all complicated (compare the data structures and compare the code to the
> emacs native bookmards). It does presume a 'segregationist' mind-set
> that I clearly have and many on this list don't, ie. it didn't occur to
> me that people find it desirable to mix up bookmark types.

My personal bookmark indexing system (Hyperscope) has 15892 bookmarks
to various files, PDF, specific pages to PDFs, Dired directories,
files, specific parts of videos for few different aspects of research,
bookmarking things that are opened externally, videos are opened
externally, PDF files could or need not be opened externally, external
file manager can be opened at specific location, etc.

It does not bother me that it is all "together" because one could see
it as such, but I never even have been thinking of it. Cognition comes
from your statements, yes I keep them together. This may give you
different user viewpoint.

I have launchers, or program launchers in that system, tasks and notes
as well all inside of a bookmark, which I call hyperlink and it still
does not bother me. There is even bookmark to bookmark or another
bookmark which can be with different wordings that point out to first
bookmark. Normally such bookmarks to bookmarks are stored in different
set of bookmarks.

Reason why it does not bother me is incremental narrowing completion
and filtering. Within seconds I am at right place.

> Even though I've been an emacs user for over 20 years, I was
> probably also heavily influenced by pretty much all other file
> managers, that do have a bookmark feature, only for directory
> places.

Me too, used many times bookmarks in Midnight Commander. But it was
also often a problem to invoke the key binding as it was in conflict
with Window Managers.

> I expect many people coming to emacs more recently might also have
> their expectations likewise influenced by all those other file
> managers.

Not so many will be coming from Midnight Commander as it is not
replaceable by Emacs.

There is one package I think helm gnome bookmarks or system bookmarks
which is then taking bookmarks from XFCE, Gnome, KDE and displaying in
Emacs. This shall give you idea how to enhance your package. It is
exactly for reason to help people who used other file managers to find
their dear bookmarks.

> Now, if one can argue that it's *objectively* better to mix
> bookmarks, then one can clearly reject the diredc system, but once
> it becomes a subjective issue of expectation and personal
> preference, the diredc system isn't so easy to reject.

>From view point of Emacs users and standard bookmark usage it is
somehow better to leave people in their familiar key bindings and add
or enhance Emacs bookmarks with outside package. That is why I am
looking into those handlers Drew mentioned, but still did not find
clear way to go. It is gluing two bookmark systems together. Then I
can make defcustom to decide which types of bookmarks from my system
would be included in the list C-x r b or maybe all (but I have to have
filtering).

>From view point of myself, or from view point of other package
developers like you it need not be together. My bookmarking system is
not together and does not display in in list-bookmarks. I can access
my bookmarks with different key bindings. The difference is basically
in function and in keybindings.

If there is good filtering option and search functions, there is no
difference in accessibility.

Only because I do not have functions yet (handlers) to glue to
`list-bookmarks' for now it remains so. But I may glue the list from
Emacs bookmarks into my system and display, filter, access or annotate
it in a different manner. In that sense gluing systems together is
unfullfiled desire.

Comments on Bookmark+: there are new things to learn, for example
non-existent bookmarks for which I did not even now they are
non-existent, "no such buffer now", bookmarkes to sequence or variable
list, function, there are annotations which should be in every
bookmark system. Browsers mostly have it, some of them still don't.

There are functions to export and import bookmarks,
integrate. Thinking of knowledge management that is useful as one want
whole set or groups or tagged bookmarks exported and to give such to
other people. Bookmarks need not be only to location of files,
directories, bookmarks are pointers and hyperlinks to information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperlink

In computing, a hyperlink, or simply a link, is a reference to data
that the user can follow by clicking or tapping.[1] A hyperlink points
to a whole document or to a specific element within a
document. Hypertext is text with hyperlinks. The text that is linked
from is called anchor text. A software system that is used for viewing
and creating hypertext is a hypertext system, and to create a
hyperlink is to hyperlink (or simply to link). A user following
hyperlinks is said to navigate or browse the hypertext.

Emacs bookmarks, bookmarks+ or diredc bookmarks or any similar system
fit into that definition of hypertext systems. Merging them together
or having unified search and filtering interface is useful.