Re: [Texmacs-dev] Missing French translation in menus

[Michèle Garoche]

Le lundi, 21 avr 2003, à 15:45 Europe/Paris, address@hidden a écrit 
:
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2003 at 04:44:27AM +0200, Michèle Garoche wrote:
> > It would be nice if those words were translated (or translation
> > corrected to be more Frenchie or simply without mispelling) in the 
> > menu:
> >
> > Edit->Preferences->Keyboard->A modifier:            A modifier =>
> > Modificateur A
> > Edit->Preferences->Keyboard->M modifier:           M modifier =>
> > Modificateur M
> > Edit->Preferences->Keyboard->H modifier:            H modifier =>
> > Modificateur H
> > Edit->Preferences->Keyboard->Caps-lock key:     caps-lock key => 
> > touche
> > majuscule fixe
> I'd rather say "Touche verrouillage capitales".
> According to Petit Robert 1989, "majuscule" applies to handwriting
> (and maybe script fonts) while "capitale" refers to printed faces.
It's traditionally named 'majuscule fixe' in computer books. That has 
nothing to do with the word majuscule or capitale, here we talk about a 
piece of material, whose name is 'touche majuscule fixe', not about the 
form of a letter (typography array).

> > Edit->Preferences->Keyboard->Alt key->Don't remap:    Don't remap => 
> > Ne
> > pas modifier
> > Edit->Preferences->Keyboard->Meta key->Don't remap:    Don't remap =>
> > Ne pas modifier
> > Edit->Preferences->Keyboard->Windows key->Don't remap:    Don't remap
> > => Ne pas modifier
> > Edit->Preferences->Keyboard->Caps-lock key->Don't remap:     Don't
> > remap => Ne pas modifier
> >
> > Insert->Switch:       Switch => Rabat
> > Insert->Switch->Switch:      Switch => Rabat
> > Add switch before => Ajouter rabat avant
> > Add switch after => Ajouter rabat après
> > Remove this switch => Enlever ce rabat
> In accordance with the Spanish translation I'd rather translate
> "switch" to "diapositive" or the like.
I'm sorry not to be OK with you. I'm not trying to translate into 
Spanish, but into French. Diapositive is something well defined and 
it's not what we can have with 'switch'. Another possibility could be 
'pli', but then 'pli plié' sounds rather brute to my French ears, 
that's why I opted for 'rabat', which conveys the idea of something 
that can be fold and unfold, exactly the idea which is contained in 
switch and also the same idea of many folds, which is contained in the 
old children's game where you write several words on a paper, then fold 
it many times like an hexagon, and then the game is to discover step by 
step a sentence by choosing carefully which switch you want to unfold. 
So, for me, both ideas (one part is visible, the other invisible; there 
can be several other invisible switches) are contained in the word 
'rabat' as well as in the word 'switch', so it's a could candidate.
> Generally, I think that "switch" is obscure even in English.
Browsing a good thesaurus you'll find that switch conveys this idea too.

> > Switcher vers le précédant => Échanger avec le précédent (note E 
> > acute,
> > and dent at the end of précédent)
> > Switcher vers le suivant => Échanger avec le suivant
> > Switcher vers le premier => Échanger avec le premier
> > Switcher vers le dernier => Échanger avec le dernier
> "Dernière/Première diapositive suivante/précédente".
Or better:
Premier rabat, dernier rabat, rabat précédent, rabat suivant.

> > Note also that in some cases the world fold or unfold appears
> > untranslated. It should be translated avec plié or déplié, or plier or
> > déplier according to the fact it is an adjective or a verb.
> Yes, it is said that a new system for translations (with support for
> context) is planned, which is supposed to help disambiguate those
> situations. In the meantime we will have to live with imperfect
> translations.
No, you did not understood what I meant. It's already correctly 
translated, when it is. But, sometimes, it is not translated. So, I 
just said, it has to be translated in all cases, and in the case it is 
not already translated, it has to be in the way I indicated.

> Some people think it would be better to stick with the PO practise to
> have different internal representation for the same word in different
> contexte, but Joris does not like this.
> If some translators implement the PO-traditional approach, that could
> be supported in alternative branches (here, a good distributed version
> control system would be of great help).
I tried to do this last year, but some translation are impossible, 
because they break other ones. So, I refuse to use a tool which I 
cannot rely upon.

> > Edit->Presentation => Présentation
> > Edit->Presentation->Underline => Souligné
> > Edit ->Presentation->Overline => Surligné
> >
> > Edit->Space->Customized tab => Tabulation personnalisée
> >
> > Edit->Header->Header and footer => En-tête et pied de page
> > Edit->Header->Header and footer->Footer  => Pied de page
> >
> > Edit->Execute->Text->Find File => Chercher fichier
> >
> > Text->Title->..Texmacs => Fait avec Texmacs
> > Text->Title->A.M.S subject classification => Classification A.M.S.
> >
> > Text->Description->Compact => Compacte
> > Text->Description->Aligned => Alignée à droite
> > Text->Description->Long => Longue
> >
> > Format-->Couleur->Noire => Noir
> > Blanche => Blanc
> > Bleue => Bleu
> > Verte => Vert
> > Grise => Gris
> > Brune => Brun
> >
> > Idem in Document->Color->Foreground and Background
> > plus:
> > dark grey => gris foncé (e acute)
> > light grey => gris clair
> > broken white => blanc cassé (e acute)
> I already submitted a patch to that effect, it was refused.
Colors in French are name and adjectives, in this context, there are 
names and as names they are invariable. That's for the first point, for 
the second, I cannot see any reason why some colors should not be 
translated.

> > Format-> Césure->Normal => Normale
> > Format->Césure->Professionnel => Professionnelle
> Are you sure those words are not used in other contexts (still the
> problem of context dependent translations).
I did not notice it, but I noticed that some other menus which use 
adjectives are correctly translated in different contexts with the 
correct termination, so I thought if it's possible in a context, it 
should be possible in all contexts.

> > Idem in Document->Paragraph
> > Document ->Style-> Pas de style => Sans style
> > Also, all of a sudden, all articles in Document->Style have the first
> > letter in lowercase, would be nicier in uppercase (I mean the first
> > level).
> That is an interesting issue. The problem is that the items in this
> menu exactly match the basenames of installed style files (also true
> for packages files). Since some systems have case-sentive file names
> it is important to disambiguate menu items for styles whose names only
> differ by the capitalization of the first letter.
> Maybe that could be an option with a platform specific default.
In this case, there's no reason to translate the name of the fonts, 
which leads to ridiculous translation into French.


> > Document->Color->Foreground => Premier-plan
> > Document->Color->Background => Arrière-plan (e grave)
> Maybe "Encre" et "Fond" ?
No, again, traditional in computer array. Encre and Fond are 
definitively other things.

> > Document->Page->Size->Lecture note => Notes de cours
> That is academic jargon, I am not sure that would the correct
> translation. Anyone can confirm?
It's the correct translation; See Collins Robert.

Generally speaking, I have no time to argue upon translation. I propose 
and you do what you want with it. I consider here it's my job to 
translate and propose good translation. It's the responsibility of the 
author to decide to implement it or not, though as a lover of French 
(or any other) language I may sometimes regret that the right decision 
may not be reached. As my mother says "Chacun son métier, et les vaches 
seront bien gardées". Full stop.

Michèle
<http://micmacfr.homeunix.org/>