Re: [Wesnoth-dev] The problem with Knalgans....

[John McNabb]

My comments are based mostly on watching AI vs AI or human vs AI battles, 
so take it for what it is worth in that regard:

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005, David White wrote:
> After trying to play a few human vs human games as the Knalgan Alliance, 
> I think I have a little better idea what is wrong with them.
> 
> IMHO, they are currently 'almost' powerful enough. Lots of people seem 
> to think Gryphon Riders are overpriced, but I think that at 25 gold they 
> are pretty reasonable now. They only cost 25% more than ghosts, and they 
> are alot more valuable than ghosts, being able to move 9 hexes vs the 
> ghost's 7. Their attack is also alot more powerful than a ghost's. A 
> ghost isn't much of a serious combat unit, but a gryphon rider or two 
> can turn the course of a battle by swooping in at an opportune moment.
> 
> One change I think does fit a gryphon rider is that I think it should 
> get some better defense on mountains. Probably 60%. I think it makes 
> sense for a gryphon to be more daunting and difficult to attack while 
> it's on a mountain.

This seems reasonable to me.  The 9 movement really shines with fog-of-war
and as you said they are useful support units to come in and mop up a 
wounded unit that you expected to kill, or wound a unit that you want to 
get experience for another unit.

> The other big Knalgan unit is the Dwarvish Fighter. I think they are now 
> pretty reasonable too. We could chop their cost down 1 piece to 16, but 
> I'd be dubious about this: I think they are very powerful. This didn't 
> use to be so, but things have changed lately: we've made Dwarves move 
> fast through forest, and they have better defense in villages. There are 
> situations where they are more maneuverable than their human, elvish, 
> orcish, and undead counterparts despite their 4 movement rate. They are 
> also *very* tough fighters. My inclination is to say that they are 
> powerful enough already, though I guess we could make them a tiny amount 
> more powerful with 1-2 more hitpoints, or a 1 cost reduction, or 
> increasing their secondary hammer attack from 9-2 -> 10-2.

The dwarvish fighter is all right, allthough I almost never use them 
against the computer.  They may be slightly under-powered or over-priced.

> The problem for the Knalgans, though, is that this is where their good 
> units end. The Ulfserker is kinda expensive, at 18, and more 
> importantly, you don't want a unit that has 'beserker frenzy' when their 
> attack is only 4-4. There is no way I would recruit an Ulfserker against 
> human opponents with current stats, because they die far too easily. I 
> think that to be useful, this unit has to have its cost substantially 
> reduced, and/or have its attack power increased: to 5-4 or possibly 6-3.

The problem with berserker frenzy is that the unit almost always dies,
either in combat or immediatly after.  As a result, they really end up
serving only two purposes: weakening a high-level unit so another unit can
get the kill/xp, or as part of an assasination squad.  Currently it
typically takes two Ulfs(cost 18) to kill a wose(cost 20), and at the cost
of one of the ulfs.  Reducing the ulfs cost to ~12 or 13 would give the
Knalgans a dangerous cannon-fodder unit, which all said, might not be a
bad thing.  Increasing its damage a little would not really address its 
biggest weakness, namely that they are essentially suicide units.

> The Dwarvish Guardsman is also just not worth the price of 19 gold -- 
> not with only 3 movement. Having 3 movement means a unit must be very 
> powerful in other areas to make up for it, and the Guardsman doesn't 
> come even close to this. Sure, the steadfast thing is kinda nice, but 
> enemies can easily just march around the guardsmen and concentrate on 
> other enemies. When someone really does want to kill a guardsman, it's 
> not *that* hard anyway. Guardsmen cost just one less than woses, and 
> move at the same rate, but woses are much more powerful in so many 
> respects. Even in terms of special abilities, the wose's invisibility + 
> regeneration is probably more powerful than steadfast.
> I think that guardsmen need to have their movement increased to 4, and 
> be given some real attack power...like their 4-3 attack being increased 
> to 6-3.

Against the computer, guardsmen serve well.  Placed on a village they can
resist two woses for quite a while, although three woses will make short
order of them.  In the open, woses regeneration make them superior and I
don't know that two guardsmen could kill an isolated wose before it
levels.  Increasing their speed would be good as well as the increased
attack.  You might consider giving them an alternate melee attack.  Say a
6-2 axe(blade) attack that would allow them to bypass some (like the 
wose) units' resistances.

> Then there are Thunderers. I largely don't like them because of their 
> unreliability.....but I think that's part and parcel of them. I think at 
> this stage they don't need to be changed.

I don't end up using them much either, but I'm not sure how to improve
them without making them too powerful.  Perhaps giving them an alterante
range attack with different damage type might make them more useful.  A
while ago it had been proposed that one of the dwarven characteristics was
their use of multiple weapon types, and I think that adding the second
ranged attack would fit in with that quite well.

-- 
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        "In theory, theory and practice are the same, 
                but in practice they're different."
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John W. C. McNabb
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