Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Re: in-tree pristines fatally wounded (merge-fest etc)

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

>>>>> "zander" == zander  <address@hidden> writes:

    zander> On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 02:25:41PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>     > Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences
>     > University of Tsukuba

>     Tom> The mind boggles.

> Why?  Just because you disagree with my opinions?

    zander> My guess is that Tom made that statement because he knows
    zander> ignorance and misconception are often an ingredient when
    zander> social standpoints are being debated.

Sure.  That's why we're having this discussion.  Tom and I agree that
I'm ignorant, although with somewhat different "spins" on "ignorant".
I believe that Tom is far more ignorant than I, while Tom claims to be
an "exceptionally well-informed amateur", and that I am a forerunner
of fascism.  And both of us believe that much of what the other thinks
he knows is misconception.  Thus the, uh, "exchange of views."

But what does that have to do with my workplace?  If one is aware of
one's ignorance about the working of society, and of ethical policy,
and wishes to learn, what happier place to work than one devoted (at
least in name) to the study of policy and social planning?

    zander> If Tom pays taxes, gets (government based) support and
    zander> basically does not deprive himself from any human contact,
    zander> he is not outside of sociaty.

That depends on your definition of society.  If Tom can redefine
"fascism" to suit himself, why can't I use a definition of "society"
that suits the needs of discussion as I see it?  "Outside of society"
is by no means a dishonorable place to be as I use the term: Tom is in
company with the young Mandela, Gandhi, and Thoreau.

However, I don't think Tom's "social responsibility" is the same as
theirs---after all, we already have rms---and I think he would better
serve his responsibility by working in industry, and by doing whatever
necessary to get Arch on Linus's workstation ASAP.  Those are clearly
"insider" activities, and that is the contrast I mean to express with
terms like "outside of society."

    Tom> I was not aware that I wasn't doing work in society.  And
    Tom> again, I know of many who would disagree and say that I am,
    Tom> in fact, doing work.

    >> Of course you are, in the sense of "nice work if you can get
    >> it."

    zander> A friend of mine was fired when the company simply closed
    zander> the whole department, and instead of finding a job he
    zander> started working for himself.  For many reasons he can't
    zander> support himself, so now he's working at a cafetaria
    zander> serving fries and cola.

I don't understand the point of this example.  Tom also is not able to
support himself by working for himself in the conventional sense at
present, but I don't think "self-employment" is the "work in society"
he refers to.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how