Re: Add Code of Conduct (issue 575620043 by address@hidden)

[Carl Sorensen]

On 2/6/20, 3:03 PM, "lilypond-devel on behalf of kieren_macmillan 
kieren_macmillan" <lilypond-devel-bounces+c_sorensen=address@hidden on behalf 
of address@hidden> wrote:

<snip>
    
    We lost at least 30 [!!] person-years of extremely high-level programming
    assistance because of the past tone in this community — yes, I can justify 
that
    claim with concrete data — and we’re currently in danger of losing more,
    indefinitely, because a few people in the community are unwilling to 
collaborate
    on a piece of prose which would offer that we try to be a welcoming 
community.

I have expressed reservations about the proposed code of conduct.  I hope that 
I am not perceived as being unwilling to collaborate on improving the 
friendliness of the LilyPond community.

I am perfectly fine with a code of conduct that expresses the values of 
openness, friendliness, and mutual respect.  I believe in those things deeply.  
I try to always have my participation in the LilyPond community reflect those 
values.  If I ever fall afoul of them, I hope that somebody will let me know.

I am concerned about a code of conduct that has an implied threat in it.  And 
the present proposal has an implied threat to at least one of our members.  
David K. has seen the implied threat, and he believes that the ultimate outcome 
of accepting the proposed code of conduct would be that he would eventually be 
banned.  That is his reality, just as much as those who have been offended on 
the LilyPond lists have a reality that it's not a nice place for them to be.

I think that the presence (in the proposed CoC )of an enforcement committee 
that has the power to sanction participants in response to anonymous complaints 
is more than just a bit of prose.  It's the creation of a new structure that 
governs our community.  It's the structure I have concerns about, not the prose.

I'm thinking through the issues, and I don't know exactly where I finally come 
down.  But at this point, I think I would welcome a code of conduct that 
expressed our aspirations to be open, friendly, welcome to diversity; and 
opposed to harassment,  bullying, belittling, and other negative forms of 
communication.  If the code of conduct also proposed a mediation committee that 
would provide support to people who were having trouble with the community 
(either those who felt damaged by the negative communication or those who were 
accused of negative communication), I think I could support that.  Having a 
committee that tries to smooth things over seems only a positive.   
    
    To my mind, that’s a real wasted opportunity, and sufficient justification 
to at
    least consider a CoC — a document which, for the record, I would have fell 
afoul
    of multiple times in the 17 [!!] years I’ve been posting.

I agree that it's a wasted opportunity.  I think we should try to improve 
things.  But I'm concerned that if you would have fallen afoul of the proposed 
CoC, the CoC is pretty restrictive.  I think your posts are consistently 
positive.
    
    > Apple carts unfortunately get upset once in a while. That is just life.
    
    So if someone goes around regularly knocking over everyone’s cart —
    intentionally or otherwise — and as a result drives the sellers with the 
best
    apples to another village, there’s no benefit in trying to figure out a way 
to
    direct the person’s energies to more constructive and less disruptive
    purpose(s)? I’m sure glad the real world doesn’t work on that model.

I think it's wonderful to try to help a person be more constructive and less 
disruptive.   I also think I would be concerned if the only person who sells 
peaches in the village stopped providing peaches because she occasionally 
knocked over an applecart.  The community would be worse of in both cases -- no 
peaches or no apples.  A plan to provide *both* peaches and apples would be far 
better.

The proposed CoC, in  my opinion, does not have a friendly tone towards those 
who run afoul of the CoC.  And I think we need to be friendly to all, including 
those who run afoul of the CoC.  Rather than seeking to ostracize them, we 
should seek to help them.  The proposed CoC doesn’t feel that way to me.

But I'd be very happy to try to help make it feel friendly.

Thanks,

Carl