Re: [Texmacs-dev] French translation of documentation

[David Allouche]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 07:17:59PM +0100, Joris van der Hoeven wrote:
> 
> > > 1.1 (Conventions ...) frappe clavier -> frappe-clavier
> > 
> > Rather "frappes clavier", I think that is a plural mistake, not a
> > compound word. A similar (correct) case is "raccourcis clavier".
> 
> No, "frapper" is a verb, so frappe-clavier becomes a compound word and
> "frappe" is not conjugated. I do not know whether one should write
> "frappe-claviers" though, but probably not, because there is
> only one "clavier".

I will believe you DO love arguing with me.

"Petit Robert, dictionnaire de la langue française", may 1989:

    1. FRAPPE n. f. (1584; de frapper) [...] <> Cour. Action, manière
    de frapper à la machine. V. Dactylographie. [...]

Also, "Dictionnaire universel francophone online"

http://www.francophonie.hachette-livre.fr/cgi-bin/sgmlex2?F.SCIP.FL0213100

    frappe n. f. 1. TECH Action de frapper les monnaies. || Empreinte
    effectu?e sur les monnaies. || Action de dactylographier. Faute de
    frappe. 2. SPORT Mani?re de frapper. La frappe d'un boxeur. 3.
    MILIT Force de frappe: V. force.


Is that something Sylvie told you?


> > > 5.2 (Insertion d'images) Rognage -> Troncature (?)
> > 
> > Against, Rognage is the correct troncature... not very cute though.
> 
> The word "rognage" again surprised Sylvie; troncature sounds better.
> Also, troncature is frequently used in mathematics for this operation.

Typography has a lot of jargon whose systematic use is questionable
(for example I will not push the official jargon for margins), but it
is not the same a maths :-)

 
> > >     Agrandissement proportionnelle -> proportionnel
> > > 6.3 (... orthographe) langues utilisés -> utilisées
> > > 8.1.1 (utilisation normale) pour choisir ... données "si applicable"
> > > (?)
> > 
> > Agreed.
> 
> Agreed with what? This sentence just sounds strangely;
> maybe it should be reformulated.

I misread: "pour choisir ... données (si applicable)"

With parenthesis that sounds ok to me.


> > > 8.2.4 (Macaulay 2) forme compilé -> compilée
> > > 8.2.7 (QCL) Les utilisateurs ... doit -> doivent
> > 
> > > 9.1.1 (TeXmacs -> LaTeX) convertir ... TeXmacs "à" LaTeX -> en (?)
> > >       [et ailleurs]
> > 
> > That is correct. "Convertir de TeXmacs à LaTeX" because here LaTeX
> > refers to the application. See also "Convertir de Word à OpenOffice".
> 
> No, it rather refers to the LaTeX format (even though that format
> is ill-defined) in my opinion.

I admit the distinction is subtle. For exemple in "sauvegarder en
LaTeX", one refer to the document format...

But, thinking a bit more about it, that is simply because "de ... à"
is given construct. You can say "Convertir un document TeXmacs en
LaTeX", but you say "Convertir un document de TeXmacs à LaTeX" and not
"de TeXmacs en LaTeX".

The only exception I can think of is "de mal en pis", which clearly
ought not to be applicable to this translation :-)


> > Joris, could you design a little index hack (as a package) to display
> > the untranslated content of those structures (and if possible not the
> > sections) in the index. In that way it could easily be checked that
> > all tags are NOT translated, and duplicates will be merged.
> > 
> > That problem will probably occur again, so it is a good thing to
> > provide some tools to make it easy to fix.
> > 
> > BTW, it may be nice to use a similar feature to automagically populate
> > the index (with the translated texts).
> 
> In fact, we should have a tmdoc-author style and a tmdoc-reader style.
> I am still thinking about how to do this, because one should always
> save under the tmdoc-reader style...

Ugly solution:

  Modify save-buffer to check if style is tmdoc-author. If yes, set
  the style to tmdoc-author, save, and restore the style to
  tmdoc-author.

Less ugly:

  <assign|save style|tmdoc-reader> in tmdoc-author, and check
  the initial environment in save-buffer. If '(style-has? "save
  style"), temporarily set the style of the document to the value of
  this variable while saving.

General remark:

  To provide robust support we need to be able to extract the precise
  style list from Scheme. For example, if a document (say, my source
  code documentation) uses a package (allouche.ts there), the use of
  that package must be preserved in the saved document and after
  saving.

  That can be done with a get-style primitive which return a list
  whose first element is style name and subsequent element are the
  package names used by the current buffer.

Anyhow, a small index hack as package to help Michèle fix the
translation in the short term does not need to wait for a complete
authoring environment...

-- 
David Allouche         | GNU TeXmacs -- Writing is a pleasure
Free software engineer |    http://www.texmacs.org
   http://ddaa.net     |    http://alqua.com/tmresources
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TeXmacs is NOT a LaTeX front-end and is unrelated to emacs.