RE: [External] : Re: Concern about new binding.

[Drew Adams]

> > You're right, but I think we are having a miscommunication.
> > I'm not saying we should poll the users about this.
> > That wasn't the intention at all.
> >
> > Here's the discussion that led up to it:
> >
> >     > I'd prefer to find a binding to which people could
> >     > agree, because that would leave fewer people unhappy.
> >
> >     How do we know that?  Users haven't been polled,
> >     have they?  Emacs users and Emacs have survived
> >     for 35+ years without a global binding for
> >     `revert-buffer'.  Why assume that most users now
> >     would be happier if it had a global binding?
> >
> > So I added
> >
> >     More than that.  Over that time, how often have people
> >     asked for such a global binding?
> >
> > My point was that we should not assume there is a lot of
> > demand for this change.
> 
> You agreed with Drew who said a poll was needed
> (although now he denies that).

I already corrected you once on this.  I
shouldn't have to do so again.

I never, ever, said that a poll is/was needed.
Here, in this thread, or in any other thread.

It's not that "now he [I] denies that".  It's
that I never said that.  Please cite something
to the contrary, instead of continuing to
misrepresent what I've said.

I do agree with Richard's general sentiment that
asking users could sometimes provide some helpful
info.  And we both made the point that "we should
not _assume_ there is a lot of demand for this
change".

That was the message.  I posed it as a question:
what demand has been expressed for this change?
Has it ever been requested?  (No answer, so far.)

But I've never, ever, said or thought that a poll
is, EVER, needed.

And I have no illusions about the difficulty of
good polling or the limitations of polling.

I'd never promote polling as the sole, or even
as necessarily a good, or even an adequate, way
of determining what users want.  It can be one
way to obtain some kinds of info - nothing more.

(And I explicitly criticized a recent outside
poll of Emacs users wrt various criteria.) 

Nor do I think that what users want, even when
we can determine that reasonably, is or should
be the sole, or even the best, reason for a
design decision.  _Far from it._

What did I really say here about polling?
I quoted it once, after your first attempt to
misrepresent it.  (It's quoted again, above.)
Yet you persist in doing that.

In response to a statement about a decision
that's expected to leave "fewer people unhappy",
I asked _how that was known_ or thought to be
true.  That's all.  I asked whether users were
polled in that context, as a (conceivable)
justification for that claim.

I have no idea what real justification, if any,
might lie behind the claim.  I asked whether
some poll might be part of it.  I didn't demand
anything, including polling.

You claimed I argued that "we cannot know that,
because there was no poll".  And you said my
question was really a "demand", and that I
insisted a poll be taken "before [your] opinion
would count" -- and even that Richard seconded
that insistence.  None of that is accurate.

Please stop misrepresenting what I've said.
You've claimed that I've made derogatory
statements, and more.  I have not.

I even volunteered clearly and forthrightly
(and it's not the first time) that I'm very
grateful for your work as maintainer, and in
particular I appreciate your continuing to act
conservatively wrt proposals for change, and
your valuing what already exists or has long
existed.  I strongly value that in an Emacs
maintainer.

(I've also said multiple times that I especially
value the importance and care you place on Emacs
doc.  No one, with the exception of Richard, has
shown such appreciation of the importance of doc.)

You replied to my statement of appreciation with
a nasty grumble to the effect that it means
nothing, that what I wrote is insincere, and that
"actual words and deeds speak to the contrary."

I can only ask that you and others take me at
my word, and invite proof to the contrary.
It's disingenuous and unfair to do otherwise.
I don't say nice things to flatter you.  I say
what I mean.

Please stop being so defensive, and keep the
discussion about ideas.  Please do not try to
present a difference of opinion - a technical
argument - as an attack on yourself or other
maintainers.  It's not.  It's not about you.
And it's not about me.  It's about Emacs.