RE: Problem with partial

[Juergen Reuter]

Oh, true.  Yes, I remember having seen these double bar-like lines in the 
middle of a bar, now that you are mentioning it.

So, summarizing, we actually have two totally different types of "bar" 
lines:

* Pseudo "bar" lines, which are actually sectioning marks ("||",
  repeat signs).  Virtually, they may appear anywhere in a bar; and they
  should not affect the bar number.

* True bar lines, which indicate where the heavy beat is.  The bar number
  should increase only after a true bar line (unless manually tweaked).

I am not sure, if line breaks by default should be allowed only on true 
bar lines or also on pseudo bar lines.

Greetings,
Juergen

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, Anthony Youngman wrote:

> The repeat sign probably should include a double bar line ...
>
> In my type of music (concert, brass band) it is quite normal to put a
> double bar line in the middle of a bar when there is a major section
> change, eg at the Trio. I've never come across a repeat in the middle of
> a bar, though...
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> address@hidden
> [mailto:address@hidden
> u.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Reuter
> Sent: 07 July 2006 17:31
> To: Mats Bengtsson
> Cc: address@hidden; Juergen Reuter
> Subject: Re: Problem with partial
>
>
> Ah, ok; I understand.  Still, I think that using \partial in this
> situation is kind of abuse that accidentally works.  I guess the real
> problem here is that lily models repeat signs as bar lines; but I am
> also
> wondering how a repeat sign should actually look like, if it does not
> coincide with the bound of a bar (it probably should not consist of a
> vertical line)...
>
> Greetings,
> Juergen
>
> On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Mats Bengtsson wrote:
>
> > One common example where people today use it in the middle of a score
> is
> > repeats, where the repeat sign is in the middle of a bar
> > (especially in combination with prima/secunda volta). Currently,
> LilyPond
> > doesn't automatically take this into account. Of course, the best
> solution in
> > this situation would be if LilyPond treated the measure position
> correctly
> > for repeats.
> >
> >  /Mats
> >
> > Quoting Juergen Reuter <address@hidden>:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > please note that \partial or \upbeat, whatever you call it, has
> > > musicologically a special meaning: the first, incomplete bar, and the
> last
> > > bar of a piece or of a major section of a piece (typically the bar
> before
> > > the next "||" bar glyph) should sum up to a complete bar.
> > >
> > > For example, if a song with 4/4 meter starts with "\partial 4 f4",
> the last
> > > bar should, by convention, have a total length of 3 quarter notes.
> Having
> > > said that, you never should use "\partial" or "\upbeat" somewhere
> within a
> > > piece.  If lily nevertheless accepts it within a piece without
> issuing an
> > > error or warning, I consider this a bug.
> > >
> > > Having a bar within a piece that differs in length from the
> foreassigned
> > > meter is a different concept.
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > > Juergen
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Graham Percival wrote:
> > >
> > > > Erik Sandberg wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday 05 July 2006 17:54, Graham Percival wrote:
> > > > > > IMO, \partial is just fine.  If there's some confusion, by all
> means we
> > > > > > can clarify the docs.  As always, I gratefully accept any specific
> > > > > > recommendations for doc changes.
> > > > >
> > > > > IMHO using \partial in the middle of a bar is confusing; I think
> there
> > > > > should be some other command that sets the length of an individual
> bar.
> > > > > Do you think it would make sense to invent such a command?
> > > >
> > > > I'd rather keep the behavior of \partial -- ie "add an extra X
> duration to
> > > > this bar", rather than "this bar should have X duration".  That
> said, I
> > > > suppose we could rename \partial to \addTime or something like that.
> I
> > > > don't think that \upbeat is appropriate, but we could find some
> other
> > > > name.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > - Graham
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > lilypond-devel mailing list
> > > > address@hidden
> > > > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > lilypond-devel mailing list
> > > address@hidden
> > > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> address@hidden
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
>
> * ************************************************************************ *
>
> This transmission is intended for the named recipient only. It may contain 
> private and confidential information. If this has come to you in error you must 
> not act on anything disclosed in it, nor must you copy it, modify it, 
> disseminate it in any way, or show it to anyone. Please e-mail the sender to 
> inform us of the transmission error or telephone ECA International immediately 
> and delete the e-mail from your information system.
>
> Telephone numbers for ECA International offices are: Sydney +61 (0)2 8272 5300, 
> Hong Kong + 852 2121 2388, London +44 (0)20 7351 5000 and New York +1 212 582 
> 2333.
>
> * ************************************************************************ *
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lilypond-devel mailing list
> address@hidden
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel