Re: [avr-chat] Can't Install avr-gcc in FreeBSD

[David Brown]

Brian Dean wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2007 at 04:09:59PM +0200, David Brown wrote:
>
> > Perhaps because it's easier to download winavr than get avr-gcc working 
> > on FreeBSD?
>
> Surely you're joking Mr. Brown?
>
> What could be easier than 'cd /usr/ports/devel/avr-libc && make install'?

I started my next paragraph with "More seriously..." - I realise that 
avr-gcc is straightforward to install on FreeBSD (baring the kind of 
minor slip that can occur with any system).  My comments were a more 
general one about software installation on different systems.

> As Joerg mentioned, the doc breakage was merely temporary.
>
> > Secondly, although decent Linux distros (and FreeBSD) make it
> > extremely easy to get hold of and install a wide range of software,
> > this only applies to "standard" software for which someone is acting
> > as a maintainer.  When you want to install or upgrade any of the
> > tens of thousands of packages in the Debian archives, it is vastly
> > easier than in the Windows world.  But when you step outside of
> > that, you enter the world of dependency resolution, patching,
> > ./configure, and make, instead of an InstallShield wizard.
>
> I disagree with your assertion because you generally only need to step
> outside of the port/rpm maintainer world when you need to do something
> very special to your situation.  The InstallShield world never even
> gives you the opportunity to do that, so of course you can't get
> yourself into trouble.  But by the other edge of the sword, you do not
> have the flexibility to handle the special situation should you need
> to.

As to the other edge of the sword, then I agree absolutely - when you 
want to do something special, there is no doubt that it is much easier 
when you are working with *nix (cygwin and/or mingw will get you part of 
the way there on windows).  Even for open source programs, it is 
frequently difficult to modify and compile the software on windows, as 
the software may require specific compilers.

But I don't agree that you need to do something "very special" to step 
outside the realms of your distribution's list of packages.  I use 
Debian on servers and Kubuntu on a laptop, and I gather that FreeBSD's 
ports repository has a similar range of packages.  I have found a number 
of occasions when I have installed software that is outside these ranges 
(sometimes this is because I want newer versions of some software 
without updating the whole system - this has become less of an issue for 
my servers now that I use virtual servers for specific tasks). 
Sometimes I have been able to find packages from third-party 
repositories, and sometimes I have compiled from source.  The 
flexibility to handle this is part of what makes open source such a 
powerful development model - but the *need* to do that is something that 
hinders the use of *nix in some situations.

Also, don't forget that you're somewhat spoiled by using FreeBSD - think 
about the poor folks running Mandrivia, Fedora, Mephis, or any one of 
the dozens of other popular Linux distributions with much smaller 
package repositories.  Who will make an avr-gcc package for them?  A 
single package format that works on a wide range of *nix's (or 
alternatively, a utility that automatically builds the required range of 
package formats) would mean that avr-gcc would be as easy to install on 
*any* *nix system as it is on any windows system.

mvh.,

David



> For example, Joerg recently sent me some patches for flex and byacc
> that do something very specific that I'm interested in.  I can just
> download the source, apply the patches, build it and have fun.  What
> would I do if I lived in the InstallShield universe?
>
> I use both FreeBSD and MacOS X.  The FreeBSD ports system is top shelf
> stuff, IMO.  MacOS X has a system called MacPorts, formerly called
> DarwinPorts.  This is also a very nice system which is roughly
> equivalent to a somewhat refined FreeBSD ports.  I always use the
> "ports" unless I need to do something special like the patches from
> Joerg above.  It's a rare case that I need to go outside the usual
> ports systems but having that capability, to me, is essential to my
> being. :-)
>
> Cheers,
> -Brian