Re: [Userops] Free softwar community hosting

[Aaron Wolf]

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Absolutely we should all be discussing together.

I have good outsider impressions of Python, but all I know is Haskell,
as it's the language used in Snowdrift.coop.

Anyway, I wasn't there for the actual discussions when they tried
Kallithea. I'm still definitely wishing that Kallithea were AGPL
though. That would probably push me that much more to be promoting
that we work with Kallithea. GPL for a web app isn't that much better
than MIT in practice.

On 03/07/2015 03:15 PM, Jessica Tallon wrote:
> Their argument seemed to be though that Kallithea was slow because
> it’s written in python and it could just be because I’m a bias as I
> develop 99% of things in python not least GNU Mediagoblin and
> Inboxen but I actually think python isn’t as slow as they’re making
> out, it can be extremely scalable too. Seems like we should join
> their discussion and see if we can be part of it too!
> 
> Thanks, Jessica Tallon.
> 
>> 8 mar 2015 kl. 00:05 skrev Aaron Wolf <address@hidden>:
>> 
>> Yeah, check out this discussion on the entirely-free discussion
>> board they set up:
>> 
>> http://freepo.st/community/freesoftware/post/ctoug4dj/%20Code%20collaboration%20platform%20GitLab%20acquires%20rival%20Gitorious,%20will%20shut%20it%20down%20on%20June%201
>>
>>
>> 
Looks like the announcement of NotABug being live and functional was
actually 7 days ago:
>> 
>> http://freepo.st/community/NotABug.org/post/li8m93gf/NotABug.org%20in%20beta
>>
>>
>> 
And yeah, they did this same process as us, thinking about what to do.
Somehow they were bizarrely precient in starting this *just before* the
Gitorious announcement was made.
>> 
>> And I totally think that 99% of the decisions for NotABug are yet
>> to be made and we are perfectly welcome to come join and have our
>> input on what those decisions will be.
>> 
>> My only concern is that I'm still not sure Gogs vs GitLab CE vs
>> Phabricator etc. — although they did seem to decide that
>> Kallithea and GitBucket were too slow and clunky.
>> 
>> On 03/07/2015 02:59 PM, Jessica Tallon wrote:
>>> I wasn’t aware at quite how new the site is so it sounds like
>>> they would be a good fit. Do they have an IRC channel or place
>>> where we can talk to them? I suppose then the other question is
>>> Gogs a good fit, I suspect it’s probably our best option given
>>> the recent discussion we’ve had. It would certainly be a good
>>> idea to reach out to them and discuss being more involved and
>>> helping them get their site up and running. I think it being a
>>> community run site is important but from what you’ve said it
>>> sounds like they are.
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Jessica Tallon.
>>> 
>>>> 7 mar 2015 kl. 23:49 skrev Aaron Wolf <address@hidden>:
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps people don't understand that the NotABug project
>>>> started something like last month. It's really totally brand
>>>> new. Believing that it has some set policies or that it isn't
>>>> a community project or complaining that it's pages aren't
>>>> fleshed out is only one-step removed from rejecting this very
>>>> list and discussion because we don't have all of our ideas in
>>>> place yet.
>>>> 
>>>> I've been interacting with some of the NotABug folks and I
>>>> can tell you this: they are just in the same boat as us,
>>>> trying to figure out what policies make sense, just barely
>>>> starting this. They were chatting about whether to make their
>>>> Gogs fork AGPL (since they care as much about software
>>>> freedom as anyone).
>>>> 
>>>> That project is in such early stages that it really is the
>>>> case that if we just joined in, we'd all end up being part of
>>>> the founding community. I think they'd be happy to agree to
>>>> the strict free-projects requirements.
>>>> 
>>>> Again, I'm not actively involved, but I know that this is not
>>>> a set thing. It's literally just another handful of people
>>>> having this same discussion and being a few weeks (at most)
>>>> ahead of us in taking action…
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers, Aaron On 03/07/2015 02:43 PM, Jessica Tallon wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 7 mar 2015 kl. 23:25 skrev Aaron Wolf
>>>>>> <address@hidden>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I want to note the existence of https://notabug.org/
>>>>>> which is already expressly a free software, free culture
>>>>>> project hosting with Gogs. Perhaps we all just want to
>>>>>> get involved with that…
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah I’ve looked at it. My worry is that because it’s less
>>>>> of a community effort and community funded and run it could
>>>>> vanish if whoever runs it decides to stop one day or for
>>>>> whatever reason can’t. I feel if it’s a community run
>>>>> project it has more of a chance of being resilient to that.
>>>>> There is also some question to how reliable that might be
>>>>> for a big project such as GNU Mediagoblin, for example
>>>>> their help page leaves a lot to be desired
>>>>> https://notabug.org/help
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm not sure about ruling out Kallithea, but I haven't
>>>>>> tried it or made comparisons really. As we're offering
>>>>>> ticketing (still in progress though) via Snowdrift.coop,
>>>>>> we don't care about lack of ticketing and are happy to
>>>>>> encourage other projects to use the Snowdrift.coop system
>>>>>> soon, but availability of ticketing otherwise isn't
>>>>>> necessarily a bad thing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> A integrated ticket system is incredibly useful. It’s
>>>>> certainly a deal breaker for my personal projects and also
>>>>> Inboxen. We rely heavily on a ticket tracker and having to
>>>>> setup our own or evaluate other options would be kind
>>>>> enough to put us off the idea. I think having an issue
>>>>> tracker really is necessary. Kallithea also doesn’t have
>>>>> SSH-based authentication with server side key management
>>>>> (source:
>>>>> http://docs.kallithea-scm.org/en/latest/#incoming-plans)
>>>>> which is a killer for not only me and Inboxen but also GNU
>>>>> Mediagoblin.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I strongly suggest that requirements not be limited to
>>>>>> GPL-compatible. Instead, we should be only as limited as
>>>>>> the FSF/OSI existing authorities are. That means we
>>>>>> should accept any project entirely using free/libre/open
>>>>>> terms, despite potential compatibility issues. See what
>>>>>> we already worked out for concrete requirements at
>>>>>> Snowdrift.coop which could be the same for this project:
>>>>>> https://snowdrift.coop/p/snowdrift/w/en/project-requirements
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
That sounds fair, any Free software project.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyway, combining these points, we could choose to just
>>>>>> join the NotABug community and encourage them to make
>>>>>> free/libre/open requirements a priority for their site
>>>>>> (or more explicit at least). I'm not familiar enough with
>>>>>> Gogs or the situation behind its development to have an
>>>>>> opinion about that vs Phabricator vs GitLab CE or others.
>>>>>> I do know that the NotABug folks considered GitBucket and
>>>>>> Kallithea before settling on Gogs…
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I certainly am no too familiar with any of these solutions
>>>>> in depth and would need to look into the solutions further.
>>>>> I’m dedicating this weekend to researching into this. I’m
>>>>> going to deploy the possible options and research into them
>>>>> and hopefully be able to provide the information I find
>>>>> with the group.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers, Aaron
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 03/07/2015 02:14 PM, Jessica Tallon wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There have been discussions on IRC and also on a
>>>>>>> pump.io thread 
>>>>>>> (https://io.theperplexingpariah.co.uk/Tsyesika/note/oBSJrForR9mymrm2CqhCbg)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
about starting a community run code hosting site with issue tracking
>>>>>>> since the acquisition and subsequent demise of
>>>>>>> Gitorious. The following projects so far are interested
>>>>>>> in being a part of this group:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - GNU Mediagoblin - My personal projects (Pamrel,
>>>>>>> PyPump, etc.) - Inboxen (possibly) - snowdrift.coop
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The site would only accept projects which are fully
>>>>>>> free software, those being under GPL compatible
>>>>>>> licenses. It will be run by the community and funded
>>>>>>> hopefully by the community. I am willing to donate:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - VPS (probably a bitfolk one) - SSL certificate (not
>>>>>>> EV but a standard one from gandi) - A domain
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A linode server has also been offered by Simon
>>>>>>> Fondrie-Teitler (simonft). The current candidates for
>>>>>>> software seem to be:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Gitlab (Maybe not as they offer a proprietary version
>>>>>>> and have a CLA) - Phabricator (Also has a CLA but no
>>>>>>> proprietary version) - Gogs (written in Go, and pretty
>>>>>>> new)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The one which has more or less been ruled out is
>>>>>>> Kallithea as it doesn’t have an issue tracker or SSH
>>>>>>> authentication which is unfortunate as that would have
>>>>>>> been a good choice (Free software wise).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks, Jessica Tallon.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Userops
>>>>>>> mailing list address@hidden 
>>>>>>> http://lists.mediagoblin.org/listinfo/userops
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
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