Re: [Userops] Free softwar community hosting

[Aaron Wolf]

One extra point: NotABug and the folks involved seems reasonable, but is
so new that lots is unclear. I'm not worried about their community
intentions, but I can't say anything about the reliability of their
hosting or anything else… so those things will have to be worked out
whichever way we go with this, joining them or any other direction…

On 03/07/2015 03:05 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> Yeah, check out this discussion on the entirely-free discussion board they 
> set up:
> 
> http://freepo.st/community/freesoftware/post/ctoug4dj/%20Code%20collaboration%20platform%20GitLab%20acquires%20rival%20Gitorious,%20will%20shut%20it%20down%20on%20June%201
> 
> Looks like the announcement of NotABug being live and functional was actually 
> 7 days ago:
> 
> http://freepo.st/community/NotABug.org/post/li8m93gf/NotABug.org%20in%20beta
> 
> And yeah, they did this same process as us, thinking about what to do. 
> Somehow they were bizarrely precient in starting this *just before* the 
> Gitorious announcement was made.
> 
> And I totally think that 99% of the decisions for NotABug are yet to be made 
> and we are perfectly welcome to come join and have our input on what those 
> decisions will be.
> 
> My only concern is that I'm still not sure Gogs vs GitLab CE vs Phabricator 
> etc. — although they did seem to decide that Kallithea and GitBucket were too 
> slow and clunky.
> 
> On 03/07/2015 02:59 PM, Jessica Tallon wrote:
>> I wasn’t aware at quite how new the site is so it sounds like they would be 
>> a good fit. Do they have an IRC channel or place where we can talk to them? 
>> I suppose then the other question is Gogs a good fit, I suspect it’s 
>> probably our best option given the recent discussion we’ve had. It would 
>> certainly be a good idea to reach out to them and discuss being more 
>> involved and helping them get their site up and running. I think it being a 
>> community run site is important but from what you’ve said it sounds like 
>> they are.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jessica Tallon.
>>
>>> 7 mar 2015 kl. 23:49 skrev Aaron Wolf <address@hidden>:
>>>
>>> Perhaps people don't understand that the NotABug project started something 
>>> like last month. It's really totally brand new. Believing that it has some 
>>> set policies or that it isn't a community project or complaining that it's 
>>> pages aren't fleshed out is only one-step removed from rejecting this very 
>>> list and discussion because we don't have all of our ideas in place yet.
>>>
>>> I've been interacting with some of the NotABug folks and I can tell you 
>>> this: they are just in the same boat as us, trying to figure out what 
>>> policies make sense, just barely starting this. They were chatting about 
>>> whether to make their Gogs fork AGPL (since they care as much about 
>>> software freedom as anyone).
>>>
>>> That project is in such early stages that it really is the case that if we 
>>> just joined in, we'd all end up being part of the founding community. I 
>>> think they'd be happy to agree to the strict free-projects requirements.
>>>
>>> Again, I'm not actively involved, but I know that this is not a set thing. 
>>> It's literally just another handful of people having this same discussion 
>>> and being a few weeks (at most) ahead of us in taking action…
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Aaron
>>> On 03/07/2015 02:43 PM, Jessica Tallon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 7 mar 2015 kl. 23:25 skrev Aaron Wolf <address@hidden>:
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to note the existence of https://notabug.org/ which is already 
>>>>> expressly a free software, free culture project hosting with Gogs. 
>>>>> Perhaps we all just want to get involved with that…
>>>>
>>>> Yeah I’ve looked at it. My worry is that because it’s less of a community 
>>>> effort and community funded and run it could vanish if whoever runs it 
>>>> decides to stop one day or for whatever reason can’t. I feel if it’s a 
>>>> community run project it has more of a chance of being resilient to that. 
>>>> There is also some question to how reliable that might be for a big 
>>>> project such as GNU Mediagoblin, for example their help page leaves a lot 
>>>> to be desired https://notabug.org/help
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure about ruling out Kallithea, but I haven't tried it or made 
>>>>> comparisons really. As we're offering ticketing (still in progress 
>>>>> though) via Snowdrift.coop, we don't care about lack of ticketing and are 
>>>>> happy to encourage other projects to use the Snowdrift.coop system soon, 
>>>>> but availability of ticketing otherwise isn't necessarily a bad thing.
>>>>
>>>> A integrated ticket system is incredibly useful. It’s certainly a deal 
>>>> breaker for my personal projects and also Inboxen. We rely heavily on a 
>>>> ticket tracker and having to setup our own or evaluate other options would 
>>>> be kind enough to put us off the idea. I think having an issue tracker 
>>>> really is necessary. Kallithea also doesn’t have SSH-based authentication 
>>>> with server side key management (source: 
>>>> http://docs.kallithea-scm.org/en/latest/#incoming-plans) which is a killer 
>>>> for not only me and Inboxen but also GNU Mediagoblin.
>>>>
>>>>> I strongly suggest that requirements not be limited to GPL-compatible. 
>>>>> Instead, we should be only as limited as the FSF/OSI existing authorities 
>>>>> are. That means we should accept any project entirely using 
>>>>> free/libre/open terms, despite potential compatibility issues. See what 
>>>>> we already worked out for concrete requirements at Snowdrift.coop which 
>>>>> could be the same for this project: 
>>>>> https://snowdrift.coop/p/snowdrift/w/en/project-requirements
>>>>
>>>> That sounds fair, any Free software project.
>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, combining these points, we could choose to just join the NotABug 
>>>>> community and encourage them to make free/libre/open requirements a 
>>>>> priority for their site (or more explicit at least). I'm not familiar 
>>>>> enough with Gogs or the situation behind its development to have an 
>>>>> opinion about that vs Phabricator vs GitLab CE or others. I do know that 
>>>>> the NotABug folks considered GitBucket and Kallithea before settling on 
>>>>> Gogs…
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I certainly am no too familiar with any of these solutions in depth and 
>>>> would need to look into the solutions further. I’m dedicating this weekend 
>>>> to researching into this. I’m going to deploy the possible options and 
>>>> research into them and hopefully be able to provide the information I find 
>>>> with the group.
>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Aaron
>>>>>
>>>>> On 03/07/2015 02:14 PM, Jessica Tallon wrote:
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There have been discussions on IRC and also on a pump.io thread
>>>>>> (https://io.theperplexingpariah.co.uk/Tsyesika/note/oBSJrForR9mymrm2CqhCbg)
>>>>>> about starting a community run code hosting site with issue tracking
>>>>>> since the acquisition and subsequent demise of Gitorious. The following
>>>>>> projects so far are interested in being a part of this group:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - GNU Mediagoblin
>>>>>> - My personal projects (Pamrel, PyPump, etc.)
>>>>>> - Inboxen (possibly)
>>>>>> - snowdrift.coop
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The site would only accept projects which are fully free software, those
>>>>>> being under GPL compatible licenses. It will be run by the community and
>>>>>> funded hopefully by the community. I am willing to donate:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - VPS (probably a bitfolk one)
>>>>>> - SSL certificate (not EV but a standard one from gandi)
>>>>>> - A domain
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A linode server has also been offered by Simon Fondrie-Teitler
>>>>>> (simonft). The current candidates for software seem to be:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Gitlab (Maybe not as they offer a proprietary version and have a CLA)
>>>>>> - Phabricator (Also has a CLA but no proprietary version)
>>>>>> - Gogs (written in Go, and pretty new)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The one which has more or less been ruled out is Kallithea as it doesn’t
>>>>>> have an issue tracker or SSH authentication which is unfortunate as that
>>>>>> would have been a good choice (Free software wise).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Jessica Tallon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Userops mailing list
>>>>>> address@hidden
>>>>>> http://lists.mediagoblin.org/listinfo/userops
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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