Re: [glob2-devel] gameplay and fruits

[Bradley Arsenault]

On 1/7/06, Nuage <address@hidden> wrote:
> > But to fight to get it, you must be pretty much even up to that point.
> > If someone gets a fruit before you, and you send in the warriors, half
> > of them may be converted to the enemy before they even arrive just
> > because their getting closer to the enemies inn
>
> Wrong, there is some time needed to secure it and some time needed to bring 
> the
> fruits back to the Inns, and some time until your units are hungry. And this
> make the fruits owner two places to protect instead of one, so you have a
> strategical advantage. Plus you see all the enemy inns.

Remember as well that after fighting for it, your warriors will need
to go to heal. If your opponent has infact won the fight, that means
you've either backed off or run out of healed warriors. If they win
the fruits, there is no time to secure it, because they can't do
anything with the fruit regardless (or very little) during a fight, so
once the fight is over, its instantly secured (unless your talking
about towers or permament guard zones). The time to harvest it can be
taken into account, but remember also that units don't all get hungry
at the same time. Sure there are waves when more units are hungry than
others, but there's generally a constant section of hungry units, and
as soon as your opponent gets fruits, any number of them could start
getting converted (slowly but surely).
>
> > (we all know that its
> > always the almost-hungry warriors that sign up for flags).
>
> Wrong, the flag will take the hungriness into account. (tip: make hospitals)

Ohh come on, when I make a war flag, my warriors all march off to it,
if its at any real distance, around a third of my warriors will grow
hungry and turn around before they even reach the targett. Its not
specifically a bug or behaviour, just an observation. The warriors
really do nothing while waiting for a flag except continually get
hungrier, eat or train.
>
> > You especially should not make the effectiveness of a gameplay element
> > dependent on the map maker.
>
> Wrong, you can make a bad map for almost every simple game on the market.
As explained below, yes its possible to make a bad map, but generally
you shouldn't make it real easy to do, as with fruits.
>
> > I know some generic things like giving one
> > person twice as many resources as another can be safely ignored, but
> > such things as this, where a small mistake makes a map disastrous,
> > should not be put in the hands of the designer. This gameplay element
> > is too radical and needs a counterpart.
>
> There is no disaster. At worst you loose and fix the map up. (And if the map 
> is
> a bit unfair, there will be some disadvantages and some advantage that a good
> player is meant to take into account.)
Once the map is in circulation, it may be difficult to change
everybodies copy to the fixed version, even harder if the map was not
your creation, but you are making the update.
>
> > Also remember that this would be the "single winning strategy" as
> > discussed in theory. If your nearly guaranteed to win if you get the
> > fruits first, then the whole game would be just about fruits, fruits,
> > fruits. Other gameplay elements could be safely ignored. All you need
> > to win is fruits. Because if your enemy gets fruits, you lose, so you
> > must get fruits now. Single-strategy games like this are terrible.
>
> No, fruits are just part of the game, like other elements:
> -At early stage of the game, if you don't make warriors, it's hard to win, but
> it's feasible.
> -At middle stage of the game, if you don't collect fruits, it's hard to win, 
> but
> it's feasible.
> -At last stage of the game, if you don't make explorers it's hard to win, but
> it's feasible.
> If you don't like it, make a custom map: you can disable barracks, fruits and
> schools.
As nct exclaimed in another thread, that is linear strategy. Your
almost garunteed a win, or a tie, if you do the same thing every game.
Yes it may be feasable, but almost to difficult to try if your
opponent knows what your doing.

Like i said, fruits could become the "single winning strategy". They
are not just another gameplay element. They are a very powerfull
gameplay element that can practically garuntee you a win if used
correctly, ie used better than your opponent. So it wouldn't matter
how many other gameplay elements there where, if you used just fruits
really well, your garunteed a win 90% of the time.