Re: [GNUe] Re: GNUe (was 'What's up?')

[hoppy]

Your "steps" remind me of the "helicopter outside microsoft" joke.

But okay, I'll engage it.  Getting through step 1 will be a good start.

I'll get started on this over the next few days, and see what problems I 
run into.  

I'll start with what I have to work with on 
http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/current.php, and see how far I get.

Should I just post questions directly to this list, or do you want to 
take them offline?

Hoppy




> On Tuesday 16 March 2004 11:42 am, address@hidden wrote:
> >
> > My acessment of the situation is that this is a huge undertaking, and 
is
> > understaffed.
> >
>
> This is an understatement.  Very few of us are working on GNUe as part 
of our
> "real" jobs.
>
> > There are interesting dribbles of work all over the map,
> > but closure seems to be a problem, and the package seems to be melting
> > down under it's own weight.
>
> This is partially because the tools and common library are driven in a 
needs
> based mannor.  I will say that common is fairly stable.  Changes for 
the last
> few releases have required few changes to existing applications.
>
> > I would like to see a straightforward path to go from ground zero to
> > database forms that takes less than a page to describe, and gets you
> > going.  This might exist, but 1/2 day milling through what I had to 
work
> > with didn't yield it, so there seems to be a problem somewhere.
>
> I guess we don't cover this well in the manuals as they go into 
building more
> complex forms :(  I'll go thru a quick, quick step thru here.  If 
someone
> needs more details just ask, i'll do what I can to provide them.
>
> 1. Install gnue-common, gnue-forms, gnue-designer and their dependencies
>
> 2. Edit connections.conf to setup entries for any database systems you 
are
>   using.  Here is a sample entry from 
my /usr/local/gnue/etc/connections..conf
>
>   [prod]
>   comment = Math Production Database
>   provider = psycopg
>   host = rdbms.math.ksu.edu
>   dbname = prod
>
> 3. Open gnue-designer.  You now have 2 options.  File -> New -> From 
Wizard or
>    Drag and Drop from the schema navigator in the lower left.  I'll go 
thru
>    the Wizard as it's nice for creating master/detail forms
>
> 3a.  File -> New -> From Wizard
> 3b.  Choose Multi-Block, Page Wizard
> 3c.  Go thru the steps clicking <next> at the end of each step
>      *Give it a title  <next>
>      *Choose your connection [prod] from step 2  <next>
>      *Choose the table <next> (I'm using a zipcode table here)
>      *Click "Select All", then click "Add >", then choose your 
arrangement,
>       I'm selecting "Grid Format" (sort of like a spreadsheet) <next>
>      *I'm not adding another table so change to "no" <next>
>      *<finished>
>
> 4.  File -> Save As  (i'll save as zip.gfd)
>
> 5.  Exit designer
>
> 6.  gnue-forms zip.gfd
>
> 7.  Your form should come up after login.  Press <f8> then <f9> to have 
it
>     load all data from the table.  You can edit, delete, insert however 
you
>     wish at this point.  You have a fully functional application.
>
> > This architecture is an onion, and the inner layers haven't solidified
> > enough to build on top of it, and results aren't coming fast enough to
> > maintain the momentum.  There could be lots of work going on behind 
the
> > scenes, but it isn't getting closure.
>
> Again, we are very needs based.  I consider the core of the gnue 
toolset to be
> gnue-common, which is actually quite solid.  This is good enough for 
doing
> custom 2-tier apps without issues.  By using only gnue-common data 
access you
> end up with a system that can migrate across databases via small 
changes in
> your connections.conf file.  You can mix and match sources of data 
without
> regard to their actual storage system (postgresql, oracle, appserver, 
etc).
> You also get quite a large feature set some, but not all, of which is
> described at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/demo/tools/common/
>
> The gnue-appserver team has been making huge strides lately and today 
have
> re-added an application called hotline to gnue-contrib after we 
accidentally
> deleted it in the move to subversion 1.0 :)  I know little about it 
other
> than it's using the newly released gnue-appsever as it's backend, and I
> believe a few of the developers use it to track customer data at their
> business, I think.   Maybe one of them can expand on this.
>
> >
> > In reality, if I want to incorporate this package into my development
> > life, I'm going to want to start small, and see how far it can go.  
Show
> > me small, and we'll talk about dreamware when small is solid.
> >
>
> It's my hope that gnue-contrib will begin to provide those small, but 
usefull
> samples for people. But did you have anything more specific in mind?
>
>
> > I think this is a good idea, but it needs a little CPR.  I think to
> > attract the forces that are going to get it to critical mass, it 
needs to
> > do something demostrably useful right out of the box, and submit that
> > until that happens, the casual browser is going to keep right on 
walking.
>
> This thread has started discussions in irc about possibly throwing 
together a
> morphix CD with a gnue demo on it.  Not sure where/if it'll work into 
the
> timeline.
>
> I'm also hoping to take the web-po thing (shudder, i need a name for 
that :)
> and turn it into a turnkey cd install along the lines of IPCop.  This 
would
> setup a postgresql database, apache, gnue out of the box.  I'd really 
like to
> see this expanded into a GNUe Small Business Server that includes lots 
of
> little functionalities (samba, cups, ltsp, dhcp, etc, etc) But again 
that
> will depend upon free time.
>
> > But I'll put my time where my mouth is.  I don't know any of the
> > developers of this package per se, but if this goal is considered 
useful
> > by the powers that be, I would be willing to spend some time cleaning 
up
> > and documenting the "getting started" process, including a meaningful
> > excercise to convince a "buyer" that this thing works.
>
> This would be great.  A few of us have started manuals for gnue common, 
forms,
> and designer but time has not allowed them to be fleshed out and 
polished
> nearly as well as needed.
>
> >
> > I won't do this unsupported - somebody that has worked (or worked on)
> > this system needs to step up and tell me that I will be well 
supported if
> > I take this on.
> >
>
> What kind of support would you require?  I'm sure several of us would 
be happy
> to answer questions and help get you up and running if you're willing 
to work
> with the team.
>
> Take Care
> James
>
> --
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> James Thompson    138 Cardwell Hall  Manhattan, Ks   66506    785-532-
0561
> Kansas State University                          Department of 
Mathematics
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>
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