Re: [Gnu-arch-users] Re: the dangers of no reply-to munging; Xouvert update

[Jonathan Walther]

On Sat, Aug 23, 2003 at 04:31:06PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > > > > > "Jonathan" == Jonathan Walther <address@hidden> writes:
>
>    Jonathan> When you fix them, let us know, and we'll support you in
>    Jonathan> ending Reply-To munging by mailing lists. :-)
>
> Fixing them is not our job; it's the job of the lazy, uncooperative
> developers of the broken software.  If we do it the other way around,
> they'll get fixed a lot faster, because their users will complain.

Uh, no.  If it was going to work that way, it would have worked years
ago.  Maybe the fact that it hasn't worked should cause you to
reevaluate your strategy.

> How short-sighted can you get?  If we stopped reply-to munging
> _today_, all FLOSS MUAs would have proper list-reply commands within a
> year (and I mean the versions distributed with then-current Red Hat
> and SuSE CDs).  The users would scream, and the developers would
> finally get off their fat asses and add function instead of frill.

Ain't gonna happen.  When peoples annoyance threshhold goes up, they go
away.  A lot of mailing list managers won't put up with complaints from
their users.  If making their members happy means breaking standards
that they don't know or care about, they will do it.  Yahoo groups and
Topica.com, for instance.

> Maybe even Microshaft would have to take notice.

That's right, the rhinocerous certainly notices the blackfly that lands
on it's ass.

> ISTR you writing a paean to cooperation on emacs-devel.  Don't you
> realize that advocating deliberate disregard of published standards is
> as uncooperative position as there can be?

Who published those standards?  I certainly didn't have any input into
them.  The IETF's leadership role has only succeeded when it led where
people wanted to go.  You should try herding goats sometime, it would be
instructive as to the nature of leadership.  Honey works better than
vinegar, and brute force causes the herd to bolt.

What does ISTR stand for?

Jonathan

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